33 replies to this topic

[Nessie]

Recently there has been quite bit of debate about whether B&M Hyper coasters are good. Many people believe that these rides are forceless, and others find them full of airtime.

What do you all think?

[CPF]

Well, from the looks of it, they look great, but I guess I'll have to wait until Nitro this summer to say for sure.

[HCL]

I am not a fan of B&M hypers. They only have floater air which does nothing for me. They're fun rides but nothing that great. I've only really like two elements on the two hypers I've experienced. I Apollo's turnaround and Nitro's Hammerhead, but that's all.

[Jness3]

I love them! They have great air, comfortable restraints, and some positive G's here and there.

[Wood Dragon 1988]

LOL...as many times as I've ridden Apollo's Chariot, if there is no "ejector air" on the drop after the MCBR and the photo drop I don't know what ejector air is. I only had one ride on Goliath (SFOG), and I thought the air on that ride was overall better. A few rides I've had on Nitro have been better, a few have been mediocre. For the sake of discussion HCLCoaster, I think Apollo's turnaround, and Nitro and Behemoth's hammerheads to be the most pointless things ever. Goliath's helix is pretty good. They're hard to rank, because they are all similar, but I would rank the four I've ridden 1. Goliath 2. Apollo's 3. Nitro 4. BehemothAll are great rides but all fall way short of Superman at SFNE or Maverick, or even the lesser "Ride of Steels" on a good day. My only complaint is they haven't gotten much of ANYWHERE in 12 years of being made. Apollo is the straightest, Bull is the most twisty, and everything else is somewhere in between.

[steel-Rock]

In a way we have answered this question. If you look under the "Official Coaster Ranking Thread", you will see some B&M megas in almost everyone's top 10 or top 20 (Apollo's Chariot, Diamondback, Nitro, Raging Bull, or one of the Goliath's). The "Smoothest..." thread reads like a who's who of B&M's (Apollo's Chariot, Raging Bull, etc.). As with all things coaster, this is just a matter of opinion. Some like floater air, some like ejector air. Some like smooth, gentle, and comfortable rides. Others like to be thrown, twisted, pushed, or slammed all over the place. As we have mentioned with B&M's before, they need to make sure that each ride is a lot different from one another. Most of the megas are very similar.
I have one comment to make about B&M in general. They have made many copies of Superman UF and Batman The Ride. Even most of the other inverts seem like they have the same "stuff" (Afterburn, Raptor, Silver Bullet). Some of the other loopers are almost the same (Batman Dark Knight, Bizarro, Dominator, Medusa, Scream!). Griffon and SheiKra are a lot a like. Tatsu and Manta are almost twins. This is what I see as B&M's only "weakness". In having dive machines, floorless loopers, flyers, inverts, megas, sit down loopers, and stand ups they have many different models though; that's good.

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Edited by steel-Rock, 10 January 2010 - 06:46 AM.

[at5626]

B&M hypers, I have only been on one, which is Diamondback. The experience is amazing. The seats are the most comfortable on any coaster I have been on. It is also the smoothest. Now, I do believe that the coaster has air. The best is on the first drop (if you are more towards the back) and the first hill. After that, it starts to decline. The other hills just don't deliver as much as you would hope they would.

This tells me that it is possible that other B&M hypers are the same way. Especially the new designs (V-style cars).

I still love B&M hypers for their reliability, picturesque layout, and overall great experience.

[Ryan Shrout]

I agree with basically everything in steel-Rock's post except this.

Tatsu and Manta are almost twins.

I could not find that further from the truth. I have had the pleasure of riding both of these awesome coasters and they offer totally different rides. Tatsu is all about height and forces (probably the most forceful B&M I've ridden), whereas Manta is all about flow and atmosphere. They have a few of the same elements but that's the only thing that ties them together in my mind.

And actually that's a point that no one has made yet. Its true that most B&M Hypers are very similar in elements and even order of elements. But often they can be quite different in pacing and that's what really separates the great B&M Hypers from the good ones. SFoG's Goliath, though somewhat undersized, is often cited as one of the best B&M Hypers out there. I think this is owed to its fairly fast pacing. A rarity for B&M Hypers, it only features one trim. And that one trim is place after the helix rather than before it which results in the element giving some great forces.

[Kevin Dice]

I thought Manta was the same as a Superman UF model.

[Ryan Shrout]

Sorry. Way wrong.

Manta
Superman Ultimate Flight

[Jeremie]

I find some B&M Hypers good that I have ridden, Goliath @ SFOG, Nitro @ SFGADV, but some are completely not my type, Apollo's Chariot @ BGE, and Diamondback @ KI.The new generation hypers are terrible at airtime. The carts are so long, it makes the airtime really low. And Diamondback was really shaky in the back seat, middle was much better. Apollo's Chariot I just found boring, now this is my opinion so don't quote on me of how wrong I am.Goliath and Nitro seemed to be packed with airtime. The much better seating, and crazier layout was really worth the long waits I waited for them. But Raging Bull is not bad either. I can't compare it to the others because it's a hyper twister and it's B&M's first hyper, but it is not bad by all means...

[Vater]

Sit in the back on Apollo's Chariot for the best air, at least on the first drop.

[Ryan Shrout]

Yeah, back of any Hyper is where its at. And I gotta give best first drop air to Diamondback. Back row, clamshell a couple clicks loose, you aren't touching the seat a good 2/3 of that drop. Oh and btw, Apollo's Chariot was the first B&M Hyper to open.

[Kevin Dice]

I just had an idea about the new trains. Like stated before, the new trains 'shimmy' around turns because of their slightly longer wheel base. What if the trains steered through the turns exactly like the new Timberliner trains do?

200th Post!!!

[Tori Finlay]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. I heard all this hype, and was so excited to ride Nitro...and was let down. I just feel like that first drop did nothing for me, and I barely got out of my seat. I have more fun on Steel Force. I found Diamondback to be a pleasant surprise, though. Especially that first drop, that was beautiful. Still, they don't compare to Intamin hypers. Even the crappier Ride of Steels.

[BJ KoasterKooK]

Actually, I think we've said more about B&M Hypers on the BG Africa thread than here, but I just gotta air out my lungs on this one for consciences' sake.

And this is to everyone so no-one can say; hey...is he talking to me?!

I do not believe anyone can catergorically state that B&M Hypers are forceless or lack air-time...period.

I fully respect the enthusiast that states that they luv tight elements at high G's, or need inversions to make a coaster higher rated in their opinion...and if that's your "cup o' tea", cool enough.

But I'll argue (eh...debate), that NO type of coaster can and does give so many different type of ride experiences than a B&M Hyper does, let me give an example.

I'll use Apollos Chariot since I've been riding her since 99' and I've got 40+ rides on her since then. Let's say you get there bright and early on a late Spring day and you immediately book left for Italy. (Just for info, I can never resist the early morning sound of ol' Nessie's lift hill just "clanking" away, it draws me like a magnet every time )

So you jump onto AC for one of it's first runs of the day and for whatever goofy reason you decide to sit smack dab in the middle of the train and take an inside seat...and to top it off, the durn-fool ride op staples you in to boot. Guess what...zero air, zero degrees of hanging out there and p-poor visuals...one ugly ride.

So you come back during the mid-day, the coaster is all warmed up and you go for the front row and get an outside seat, and the nice ride-op doesn't staple your clam shell to your abs...your not 2 clics loose, but, you can move some. Guess what, that pre-drop and first drop rock your face and you get some decent ejector and some floater air on the ride and you get off with an incredible smile on your face and you say, man, that was mucho better.

So now were at the end of the day, it's getting dusk, the crowds have thinned, and you head over for one more ride on her before the day's totally done. You walk onto the back row, get an outside seat, the opposite side that your front row was on, and the tired ride-op just walks by you, touches your clam shell that you've left loose by 2-3 clics and gives the thumbs up and off you go into the darkening sky. Guess what?! You have thee most outta-control ride that seems miles per hour faster and your hanging out more than in the car and your bottom only hits the seat on the negative G parts of the ride. You pull into the station and think...is this the same coaster that bored me to death this morning?!? You gotta be kidding me, what a freakin' amazing ride!!

So there it is...NO type of coaster has more variables from a poor to great ride than a B&M Hyper; #1, the restraints, NO restraints can be minipulated more than clamshell restraints, at least to my knowledge and experience. #2, the 4 wide seating, outside everytime if possible. #3, the back rules for air, the front for visuals...never the middle. and #4, yeah, the time of day tends to matter on all coasters, these included, we all need to be "warmed up", so to speak.

And yes, I gave the most different scenarios I could think of to give the most depth to the types of experiences anyone could have. Probably no-one has ever done what I shared, but it be very interesting to see how close my beliefs are to someone else's actual experience.

Don't diss the B&M Hypers, try to push the "variable" envelope and one's enjoyment of these coasters has to go up

[The BeastFan]

I for one, actually prefer the new v-seating compared to the 4 row. It offers a much greater sense of openess, especailly on the outer seats, and the added length puts more force to the air in the back. Being a smaller guy myself, I actually recieved boarderline ejector air on Diamondback in the back, and near the front, it works out to where there is this extra boost of energy to force you to the lapbar on the drops. Its especially great if you just keep your arms and legs up and just let it pull you wherever (I'm pretty sure that would suffice for any B&M hyper).

[Ryan Shrout]

^^I actually came pretty close. My one day in BGE I got 2 rides on AC. The first was about an hour after opening. It was my first B&M Hyper experience and I ended up smack dab in the middle with a stapled clamshell. Absolutely boring ride. I came back around 4 pm and got in the second row, outside right. Good views and decent floater air with one moment of ejector off the MCBR. I never got the chance for a back seat ride though. Probably one of the reasons why I rate AC lower than most people.

[Tori Finlay]

Actually, I disagree. You can get that on just about any out and back. The Voyage, for example is 100% different from front to back.
I also rode Steel Force some 170 times this past summer (I worked there), and I know, every seat is different. Every train is different. If you want speed, go for the black trian, if you want a smoother ride, go for red. Or, at least for last season.
In regards to the restraints... well, the B&M's in the park have sensors on the trains for their belts... ;D
The time of day, and the temperature all affect it. You sit in the middle? Way boring. Packed with positive G's. The front and the back? Ride them back to back, and you can feel the difference. Go on a cold morning and watch the train crawl into the brakes. Go on a hot summer afternoon and you fly into those brakes.
So, no, it's not just B&M hypers. I'm pretty sure it's any coaster. Or at least any hyper or out and back

[BJ KoasterKooK]

^ While I understand the basic premise of where you stand, I, obviously, "disagree" back...and I'll use my #1 steel coaster and two of the reasons I previously listed to back my stand.

Oh yeah, my #1 steel happens to be that little Intamin Hyper @ SFNE. While I could wax poetic just why I rate that Intamin Hyper over my B&M Hypers, I won't. I'll just try to stick to why I believe the B&M Hypers have those more "variable" rides in them.

I'll start again with the restraints, and not to be disrespectful to a ride-op (I wouldn't mind retiring and then being one some day ), but duh, I think most all of us who've ever rode a B&M (or others), have noticed the person monitoring the "board" that is the final check to let the train go.

What makes the clam shell restraints, in particular, different from say, the older Intamin Hyper car restraints of Bizarro, is that there is a noticeably larger "range" that allows the eh, larger folks to ride these coasters. I've seen, as I'm sure you have as a ride-op, larger people get sent off rides because they just can't get the restraints to lock in.

I've seen that on all the coasters with OSTR's, and yes, even some of those with just lap bars of various types. I've also seen 250+ pound dudes ride the B&M Hypers without a problem...the reason, a more flexible range of restraint locking you in.

And it's that "range" that allows the regular and smaller folk to get away with the extra looseness once in a while. My daughter just snuck on as an 8 1/2 year old back in 99', after being turned away earlier in the day, and with the clam shell locked down as far as it could go she could still almost stand-up.

Needless to say she flew and floated through the whole ride...sometimes with my hand on her shoulder to keep her a little more under the restraint, I do believe her slim hips coulda popped right out of the clam shell completely. And her? No Fear...she luved it.

So...bottom line, far more range of motion, thus more looseness on the B&M Hypers.

Secondly, the 4 wide trains as compared to the Intamin 2 wide. Ya gotta luv those standard 2 wide trains to get the most viserial thrill outta these coasters, and that's one reason I do rate the Intamin higher overall than the B&M's...as do most enthusiasts it would seem.

But again, the 4 wide trains give much more VARIABILITY to the ride. All coasters have a front, middle, and back thing going on... only B&M's give you the added "bonus" of inside for the weaker of heart, or outside for the more extreme of us who want to "hang out there" as much as possible (and that would be 99% of those who end up reading this here!)

How can anyone debate that between the range of the clam shell restraints and the many different seating arrangements of the 4 wide trains that you aren't going to get a larger range of different types of ride experiences?!? Ya can't, sorry.

So yes, in some respects, all steel coasters share some of the same variables, but not in all ways, which is why we all still gotta realize just one or two rides on a B&M Hyper is most likely not going to give you the full appreciation and experience of what these rides can give you.

[Ryan Shrout]

^Just adding a bit to what you said about various seating options in coaster cars, B&M's v-cars are the best there is for a "hanging out there" feeling. The outside on an old four-wide leaves you open on one side, while sitting past the rails. Intamin Hypers have you inside the rails but the back row has stadium seating. Sitting in the back of a V-car though, you are out past the rails with slight stadium seating, nothing in front of you, nothing on either side. Its the most isolated feeling I've ever experienced on a roller coaster.

[The BeastFan]

@ CoasterCrazy- Would you say those outer seats on the B&M v-trains give a better isolated feeling than similar seats on the Deja Vu trio? (I'm assuming you've ridden one considering 2 parks are your regulars and you've been to SFMM)

[at5626]

BJKoasterKook-

I have actually done what you described in your different scenarios of a B&M hyper ride.

It was dusk and Diamondback had warmed up. (maybe too much, literally! Kinda hot out that day!)

I was assigned the very back seat, right outside seat.

My clamshell was not tight, but it wasn't loose.

For my one B&M hyper ride, it will probably be the best one I ever get! Sunset was beautiful!

Everything was just great. Except for the last half of the ride. I honestly think it was just average for the last half. But oh well, the whole experience made up for it!

[BJ KoasterKooK]

Sitting in the back of a V-car though, you are out past the rails with slight stadium seating, nothing in front of you, nothing on either side. Its the most isolated feeling I've ever experienced on a roller coaster.

And that is exactly what I'm looking forward too and wanting to experience these new Hyper trains...it is too bad though that the extra length or openess of the trains causes the unwanted shaking or vibration.

@ CoasterCrazy- Would you say those outer seats on the B&M v-trains give a better isolated feeling than similar seats on the Deja Vu trio? (I'm assuming you've ridden one considering 2 parks are your regulars and you've been to SFMM)

Yeah, that is what I was wondering too BeastFan, as I have done a Deja Vu from the outside seat and I couldn't believe how much more intense and thrilling those seats were farther out and away than the inside ones were.

^ That's cool at5626, perhaps you can yet talk your parents into a day @ BG while your in Williamsburg...or even an evening, you can't beat it. Not to mention that if they like to do coasters while your at KD (do they?), that ya'all should take full advantage of being right in town so you all can compare both parks.

I know, I know...we've done it all during our many stays in Williamsburg...but it did take many stays to do it all, so what can ya do when your just along for the ride, so to speak .

[Ryan Shrout]

@ CoasterCrazy- Would you say those outer seats on the B&M v-trains give a better isolated feeling than similar seats on the Deja Vu trio? (I'm assuming you've ridden one considering 2 parks are your regulars and you've been to SFMM)

I've actually ridden all 3 DejaVus. And as far as the feeling of openness, B&M's V-cars outside seat feel well more open than the outside seat of a DejaVu clone. The main reason for that to me is simply the restraints. Then there's also the fact that its an invert whereas B&M v-cars have slight stadium seating to that in the back you sit higher and see over the train ahead of you.

But as BJ said, getting the outside seat on a DejaVu does make a world of difference to being stuck in the middle.