54 replies to this topic

[JDcoasterConqueror]

This is my home park.
My palace.
My paradise.
My favorite place. (well at least in the top five places, NYC being #1)
This is my most loved park. It gives me my coaster fix, and is only a little more than an hour away from the small NYC suburbs.
Speaking of coasters...
What do you think will come next if Six Flags Inc. got out of debt in the next few years(it probably won't happen )? Really, the park is plagued by it's lack of room, closed off by it's own safari (although it's quite amusing seeing monkeys on Bizzaro's lift hill ), but it could always tear something (hopefully rolling thunder or GASM) down to make room. Although I can't really see them getting rid of the once-classic red and white coaster. What do YOU think?

EDIT; Well, actually there IS some more space that I forgot because of a mental lapse by Nitro that's usable, so... yeah.

Edited by JDcoasterConqueror, 13 April 2010 - 08:16 PM.

[Jeremie]

Lack of room? I thought this was the biggest Six Flags property.

[JDcoasterConqueror]

They can't expand because of the safari.

Edited by JDcoasterConqueror, 10 April 2010 - 01:50 PM.

[Ryan Shrout]

How bout a big B&M Flyer placed over the rapids. Flyers are a perfect model to go over stuff without needing a huge amount of space.

[TwiDragon]

^They have a flyer though,


If you want to add a new kind of coaster, bring in a eurofighter. Its cheap, small, and brings the crowds. They can take down Skull Mountain, and squeeze it in over in that area.

[netdvn]

^ They could always just tear Superman out and build a Tatsu clone over the rapids.

Since Great Adventure is a flagship park, they're gonna get all the big projects before any of the smaller parks do. That seems to be the way Shapiro is working everything out right now.

From some rumors I've heard, SFGAdv actually has a huge amount of land (second only to WDW), but that's just a rumor I've heard and can't really confirm it. That probably won't mean that the theme park will be expanding anytime soon, but that's just something I'm throwing out there.

With the huge anniversary coming up, I'm pretty sure GAdv's gonna get something really big. At this point i see...
- major flat ride
- splash battle
- compact roller coaster with huge thrill (Eurofghter)

Something with a huge licensing deal like Terminator...

[Ryan Shrout]

Wow, that as quite a brain fart. I guess It's cause I find SUF clones so unremarkable.

[Vater]

SFGAdv out of room? That's like saying Cedar Point is out of room...

[Tori Finlay]

I could see them intertwining a woodie (GCI, probably) with Nitro. They have room. Also, they have parking lot, which is room.

[JDcoasterConqueror]

Yeah. The only place to put a coaster - whatever it may be - is by Nitro; they have the most room there.
What I'm really wishing for is something similar to Expedition GeForce at Holiday Park. It looks quite intense, and the drops and airtime make me want to yell "WhoooHooo" just by watching the pov. The placement would be cool too; a Junior Hyper next to a Hyper; cool.
Anyway, my trip was a success. I rode Nitro a whopping 6 times, El Toro an amazing 8 times, and everything else at least twice (not GASM; that thing gets worse and worse every year! My ears really hurt after riding that yesterday), and I didn't even have a Flash Pass! But anyway, the only offset of that trip was that the Sky Ride was closed, making my feet kill me, walking back and forth across the HUGE park.
And yes, they're running out of room for many reasons; their cut off, the lake and the safari close them in, and the only place left for development is by Nitro. Also for the reason I said about my feet; the park is HUGE! Trying to make it BIGGER (if they could) won't help anyone!

Edited by JDcoasterConqueror, 12 April 2010 - 05:57 PM.

[Coasteridiot]

Since Great Adventure is a flagship park, they're gonna get all the big projects before any of the smaller parks do. That seems to be the way Shapiro is working everything out right now.

With the huge anniversary coming up, I'm pretty sure GAdv's gonna get something really big. At this point i see...
- major flat ride
- splash battle
- compact roller coaster with huge thrill (Eurofghter)

Something with a huge licensing deal like Terminator...

I'm honestly expecting the exact opposite.

Really, the only reason a lot of us are expecting big rides to go to flagship parks like SFGAdv and SFMM is because they've gotten so much before...who says it might not be the smaller parks to get the most attention for a while?

What makes you say that's how Shapiro is working things out right now? If anything, Shapiro is trying to do the opposite...and balance out the smaller parks.

That said, I'm not expecting anything huge, anywhere, in 2011. SFGAdv and SFMM will hopefully get a flat ride (or if we're lucky, a flat ride package), small improvements/attractions at other parks, and I'm assuming at least one GCI or spinning coaster. I really think Texas Giant and Chang will be the biggest projects of the year. Anything else is just unrealistic.

Edited by CreditCrazy, 12 April 2010 - 08:58 PM.

[JDcoasterConqueror]

Well, yes, in reality that's what I think will happen, but we're also talking hypothetically, if Six Flags Inc. wasn't in debt and Shapiro and the others weren't facing major crack down time for their entire industry, what might happen in 2011 as well.

[drachenfirebgw]

Uhh... I've never seen us talk hypotheticals here at C-net (or anywhere else for that matter) and to honest it's kinda pointless (I would rather see hypotheticals have their own topic and leave the real discussion where it belongs rather than attempt to merge the two… yikes). Anyways, CreditCrazy gets it. I'll save myself the trouble of copying his post over again in my wording and instead just tell you all to read his. For the millionth time, this is the 1990's and 2000's Six Flags Inc. that 'makes it rain'. This is Shapironomic at work.

Also, while it's obvious that Six Flags Inc. being in debt has an impact on the corporation at large, it really doesn't play a great role in addition. Cedar Fair Entertainment is stuck in a massive and was before the Paramount Parks acquisition in 2006. Yet this year we saw Intimidator 305, Intimidator, Shoot the Rapids, and many more in recent memory, so if Six Flags wanted to, they could blow off all of their money investing in giant roller coasters at SFGAdv, but they're smart not.

Also, SFGAdv out of room... right. While they won't expand into the Safari, the park has plenty of room within the park itself.

[Tori Finlay]

While they could, theoretically, throw in another coaster, they really should put some flats in. There's like what? 3 there?
I'm being sarcastic, but there really is hardly any there anymore.

[JDcoasterConqueror]

Ah, but what will a flat get them? Roller coaster enthusiasts from around the world travel to the top parks for the best rides. Think of the huge crowd of people swooning for a shiny new coaster. Think about the thousands of ACERs in America. Think of us! If adding a flat gets them much better business, all for it! But normally people don't say; Hey! There's a new flat ride at Six Flags! Let's go!
Think of Terminator Salvation at SFMM. It was a smaller investment for a coaster, only 4mill dollars, and got plenty of people to head down to the park to ride it. AND it made for a great coaster. I think SFGAdv will do the same thing, if they do something at all, and while a large coaster like a giga isn't in the park's immediate future, I expect something by the end of 2012.

[Ryan Shrout]

SFGAdv. is looking like the poster child of SFI's strategy in the late 90s early 2000's. Build coasters at the expense of all else. And it bankrupt the company. They need to ballance the park out. Theme parks are for alll family members, not just thrill seekers.

[The BeastFan]

I honestly think SFGAdv has enough on their coaster platter to advertise with for a while. Take a look at their current collection. They have the 2nd/3rd fastest and tallest coaster in the world, the first floorless coaster which just got a major upgrade, one of the tallest and steepest wooden coasters in the world, a monster hyper that still gets rave reviews, a descent invert, a flyer (which may be mediocre to most enthusiast, but most GP still awe over it), a descent Arrow looper (IMO), and plenty of family coasters including a wood racer when taken care of, I would imagine would have some popularity despite being dwarfed by El Toro. There's not much else they can afford to build that would draw thrill seekers like the yester-years of the late 90's/early 2000's. There are plenty of descent flats that can get them attention. Also, aren't they building some sort of 4d theater or something along those lines for SF's big 50? I think they are in more enough good shape to tough it out a few more years before they absolutely have to build another coaster. They did get KK and El Toro in consecutive years if I'm not mistaken, which adds to my argument. This goes for SFMM as well.

The next thing SFGAdv should build and would still get attention would be a drop tower. I can also assure you that a new flat will be more popular than you think. Both Delirium and Crypt in its prime were major crowd draws (Delirium still is).

As for a timeline until the next coaster, I wouldn't expect a descent coaster until 2013-2014.

[Coasteridiot]

Think of Terminator Salvation at SFMM. It was a smaller investment for a coaster, only 4mill dollars, and got plenty of people to head down to the park to ride it. AND it made for a great coaster. I think SFGAdv will do the same thing, if they do something at all, and while a large coaster like a giga isn't in the park's immediate future, I expect something by the end of 2012.

Terminator was 10 million, and it WAS needed, like it or not. SFMM was in need of a good family-friendly coaster and they are still working on that. SFGAdv has a good balance of family-friendly and thrilling coasters, so now it's time to move on to flats and general park improvement...

Really, even though Six Flags would never do this to the park, SFGAdv doesn't need anything (big). It already owns its market and is bigger, and better (coaster-wise, at least) than any other park in its area. I guess you could call Hersheypark a nice competitor, but they go for a different atmosphere, not to mention the parks are about two and a half hours apart. Dorney is Great Adventure's real competition, and it's not much to worry about.

[Vater]

Ah, but what will a flat get them? Roller coaster enthusiasts from around the world travel to the top parks for the best rides. Think of the huge crowd of people swooning for a shiny new coaster. Think about the thousands of ACERs in America. Think of us!

The percentage of the 'general public' that are enthusiasts and/or ACE members is tiny. The percentage of those people who travel around the world for this hobby is even smaller. GAdv is a regional park, as are all Six Flags. A shiny new coaster will certainly increase attendance, but mostly from locals.

[Daniel Westfall]

I personally love flats...always have, always will, and I might dare to say that I like them more than coasters most of the time. Why? Because you don't usually get the sustained g-forces on a coaster that you get from a flat. Also, I'm slightly (okay, more than slightly) afraid of heights. A lot of the people that I talk to here say the same thing. I know that makes the coasters more thrilling for most of you, but unless it has a fast lift like I-305 or a LIM launch like Volcano, I probably am having an bit of a panic attack going up the chain lift. Also, the line for flats are much shorter, meaning you can get more rides in, and should you have any kind of motion sickness (which seems to happen to many of us as we get older), then flats are usually located closer to the bathrooms, though for some reason they are also usually located right next to concession stands, which I haven't figured out...why are you going to eat something right before going on something that is going to make you puke?

Flats also are less expensive, can operate in more weather conditions, take up less space, and are usually better for parks with families, because kids that are too short can ride the flats with an older sibling or one of the parents while the other family members ride the coasters. It really makes sense to go with a flat or two because of the space issues mentioned, the need to appeal to a larger group of people (as Vater just mentioned), and the cost issues. And the money saved from not constructing a huge coaster can go into paying off debt, which in turn would drive ticket prices down and dividends up.

[netdvn]

Since Great Adventure is a flagship park, they're gonna get all the big projects before any of the smaller parks do. That seems to be the way Shapiro is working everything out right now.

With the huge anniversary coming up, I'm pretty sure GAdv's gonna get something really big. At this point i see...
- major flat ride
- splash battle
- compact roller coaster with huge thrill (Eurofghter)

Something with a huge licensing deal like Terminator...

I'm honestly expecting the exact opposite.

Really, the only reason a lot of us are expecting big rides to go to flagship parks like SFGAdv and SFMM is because they've gotten so much before...who says it might not be the smaller parks to get the most attention for a while?

What makes you say that's how Shapiro is working things out right now? If anything, Shapiro is trying to do the opposite...and balance out the smaller parks.

That said, I'm not expecting anything huge, anywhere, in 2011. SFGAdv and SFMM will hopefully get a flat ride (or if we're lucky, a flat ride package), small improvements/attractions at other parks, and I'm assuming at least one GCI or spinning coaster. I really think Texas Giant and Chang will be the biggest projects of the year. Anything else is just unrealistic.

Looking back at what SF has done with the flagship parks compared to the smaller parks, the flagship parks seem to have gotten a lot of the big projects in recent years first.

- SFMM had the first major ride upgrade with X2
- Two of the three Dark Knight coasters went to SFGAm and SFGAdv
- IIRC Thomas Town was first at MM and Wiggles World came to SFGAm and SFGAdv first or at least these parks were among the first to get these projects. (correct me if I'm wrong)
- Buccaneer Battle came to Great America before anybody else.
- Not sure about the parades/water park expansions though... It seems that SF is treating all SF parks equally with this.

So basically aside from the new GCIs, the Tony Hawk rides, and the SLC/B&M relocation, the flagship parks seem to be the testing site for a lot of SF's latest projects. Since the flagship parks draw a larger crowd compared to the secondary parks, it would be easier for SF to test new ride concepts or new plans at the flagships over the secondary parks. And because they draw larger crowds, the flagship parks still have huge rides to keep people coming back, even if the project fails.

Now Shapiro stated in his interview that he is planning on investing in new prototype projects. Since that can mean just about anything, I wouldn't be surprised to see something nice coming to the flagships as the smaller parks receive investments as well (like new ride upgrades, major water park expansions, a possible new coaster, flat rides, etc).

So let's go back to why I suggested the three concepts that I did...
- Major flat ride
Since GAdv has been criticized for having too few flats, it's a good possibility that a new flat ride can be installed. Large flat rides aren't the most expensive things to build and they don't take up a lot of space whatsoever. And SF advertises this as a new ride, so it brings crowds through the gate. If they want to draw a family-friendly audience, there are plenty of options to choose from. It doesn't have to be a 9000 ft drop tower to be able to draw in audiences.
- Splash Battle
A perfect family ride... SF seems to have done a good job with BB and it totally fits in with the family-friendly image SF is trying to pull. Since splash battles are becoming increasingly popular and it works well as a family attraction, I wouldn't be surprised if SF decided to build a large, nicely themed splash battle somewhere. If they want to push the envelope a little, they can go for "largest splash battle" or something similar.
- Small (but thrilling) coaster
Since Terminator and EK have been pretty successful, I wouldn't be surprised to see one of these pop up. Eurofighters, El Locos, etc... aren't that big, aren't that expensive, and still draw a crowd because of the unique elements provided. According to RCDB Mumbo Jumbo costs 4 million pounds (6 million USD) and Rock Bottom Plunge cost around 3 million dollars, and Evel Knievel costs around 7 million dollars, which doesn't really seem like much compared to a large B&M or Intamin coaster. A GCI can be enjoyed by the whole family and attract thrillseekers while being cheap. Eurofighters will bring thrillseekers through the gate, but then again, they don't cost much, are compact, and are very inexpensive compared to a larger project.

So for the chain as a whole, I predict the flagship parks will get something nice (it doesn't necessarily have to be a big coaster) while the smaller parks will catch up with ride upgrades, water park expansions, a GCI or a thrilling coaster mixed in for both anniversary years (IIRC they're spreading out the anniversary over two years to keep costs low). And then the smaller parks will eventually see some of the bigger projects to balance things out...

Edited by netdvn, 14 April 2010 - 10:05 AM.

[JDcoasterConqueror]

I would root for a Eurofighter, but I have a few doubts about what they'll exactly do. Shapiro said that they're investigating new prototype rides, so that leads me to believe that it'll be a coaster (if it is one) completely different from the rest. At first I thought it was more or less impossible; I mean, so many ideas and unique layouts have already been used, but after watching Th13teen's pov and hearing what it does (I ain't leaving the country so soon, but when I do, Alton Towers is at the top of my list), well, my mind can't fully comprehend the possibilities. If they do plan on creating a completely unique coaster, there's no telling what it may be, and we'd all just have to wait and see.

[LeoRoy1902]

As for all-out expansions, I'd like to see them expand across the lake and build on the other side. 4th Dimension coaster over the lake would be awesome, albeit COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE at the moment. There's always Eurofighters, or B&M, in the meantime. And the park doesn't have enough woodies at the moment, either...

And for more detail on possible expansion of the park, they could extend a new path from near Bizarro/Medusa around the side of the lake and build some new themed section on the other side, with a bridge across one of the narrower parts of the lake, like near where Skull Mountain is. And as long as the new development stays relatively close to the lake, it shouldn't disturb the safari.

EDIT: Now that I look at it, some parts are currently taken up by what appears to be salt marshes, but there is still space the park could use. Just not as much as I had thought.

Edited by LeoRoy1902, 23 April 2010 - 12:00 AM.

[netdvn]

^^ Actually a Thirteen-style coaster would be perfect for Six Flags. Heavy theming and perfect for families, that seems to be the new direction SF is taking so I wouldn't be surprised to see a 13 or a smaller scale EE come to one of the SF parks.

On another thought SF could go after a family-style Eurofighter with no inversions and a smaller, more gradual drop. Since Gerstlauer hasn't built one before, that could be the next world's first SF is looking for.

[Ryan Shrout]

I like the idea of SF getting a batch of EF's because they offer a big thrill in a small space on a small(ish) budget. And they aren't complete capacity nightmare, just close.