61 replies to this topic

[Ryan Shrout]

As evidenced by the current proceedings of the Official Coaster Ranking Thread we need this. Don't have time to post in depth right now, but I wanted to open this up.

[biZarRo]

Honestly, B&M Hypers aren't really that great in my opinion. The main reason is that I don't feel ANY airtime throughout the ride. Part of it is the restraints being too restrictive, but another part of it is that they are too focused on floater airtime rather than ejector airtime, which I think is better. Another reason they aren't that great are the TRIMS! I think almost all of the B&M Hypers have trims, Behemoth having them on almost every hill up to the MCBR. And they are always on. If I go on a B&M Hyper with no trims with decent airtime, it would be an amazing coaster.

B&M Hypers that I have been on(in order):

• Apollo's Chariot
• Nitro
• Diamondback

I might possibly go on Intimadator this summer, so my opinion might change after that.

[BJ KoasterKooK]

^ Interesting thoughts, and i find myself in almost total disagreement...other than that most of the air from B&M Hypers is more floater then ejector, but even on that i think most enthusiasts overstate the difference. Let's face it, at 70+ mph, your going to eject and float.

I think all are aware Bizarro is my #1 steel coaster, and indeed, the ejector air is fantasic, especially on the O&B 1st half, but, personally, i find B&M Hyper Clamshell restraints thee most adjustable to get all that air-time over the Intamin restraints of Bizarro and others.

Just how/why do you allow the ride ops to "staple" you in all the time (?), cause that sounds like what your saying. Sure, once in a while i may get a tight ride, but there are many ways to...ahem...get a extra click or so of room, and i think most here have done so and know what i mean.

Trims can obviously hurt the air-time in any coaster, or, in some occasions actually help, like I think it does on the way in on Apollos course...but that's my experience and opinion.

I have AC over Intimidator (slightly), over Golaith (slightly more), so they all fall behind Intamins bad boy in NE, but certainly not by much.

^ I think you'll luv Intimidator better than the three you've done thus far, it is thee most intense of the ones i've done, especially the front...just not good enough a return layout and thus, air-time coming in to unseat the Chariot, again, i.m.o. .

[Mike Strobel]

I have a few points I'd like to make despite my only B&M hyper being Diamondback.

1. On trims- the only trim on Diamondback, if you're riding in the front half of the train, I feel actually makes MORE air. You have that forward momentum going up and the sudden slowdown actually creates ejector air in the front from the change in momentum and your body still going up into the lapbar.

2. I have a question to ask in terms of seating. I've now ridden the entire train on Diamondback, but I find that the further to the front you get, the better. I do hear though that those like Apollo's Chariot and Bull (the earlier ones) are best ridden in the back. Any comments on this concerning which is better (very front or very back)?

3. Though I've been on 2 comparable rides in both Millennium Force and Magnum, its been a while since I rode either of those. That will be remedied in June so I can get a better comparison down. I slightly agree on the restraints issue that B&M's allow for more room to go up with that extra click. I do like the Intamin bars on Millennium Force as they are very minimal in comparison to B&M and Arrow with lots more visible room to the sides and the same open feeling. Maggie's restraints are basically the restraints from Arrow's mine train stock which I have mixed feelings for.

[Ryan Shrout]

A note on the front vs. back line of questions regarding B&M Hypers. The biggest difference imo between the old and new hypers is the little pre-drop at the top of the lift. It allows those riding in the back of the train (especially with an extra click) to get some insane ejector air. Also, I think it has something to do with the old-style trains vs. the newer, longer models. The old trains delivered a more consistent ride from front to back and seemed to flow better through the layout with less hang-ups. The new trains offer stronger air in the back, and much stronger air in the front (relative to the old trains), especially with the way B&M designs their hills. I particularly agree with Beastfan that sitting in the front on Diamondback, the ride's one trim really enhances the airtime in that position. On the other hand, riding Diamondback from the back row with a couple extra clicks still holds my personal favorite first drop. Alot of it is just preference really.

[MorganFan]

I myself can't see what is good in B&M hypers. I've never been on one though...

[TexasCyclone]

I myself can't see what is good in B&M hypers. I've never been on one though...

I've never been on one either but I really want to. And just by looking at them, I actually can see why people would like them. I've been on Bizarro (my #1 coaster) and that thing is filled with airtime, so from what I've seen, B&M Hypers are airtime machines which is why they're probably so popular

[biZarRo]

^There is a MAJOR difference between Intamin Hypers and B&M Hypers. Intamins tend to focus on bursts of ejector airtime, while B&M's domain is sustained floater airtime. I actually agree with Ryan that the earlier ones give more airtime because of the predrop, and that's what I like. My favorite Hyper overall is definitely Magnum, because there is insane ejector airtime on the second half, with some nice floater air on the first.

[Tori Finlay]

Awesome discussion!

Anyway, my list is as follows, with the ranking they have on my steel list:

1. Intimidator (5)
2. Diamondback (
3. Nitro (11)
4. AC (12)
5. Goliath (16)
6. Raging Bull (25)

At first, on my first ride on Nitro, I was disappointed. I had ridden El Toro for the first time and was told that Nitro was better, so I was expecting some seriously insane ejector air...only to receive floater air. So I can understand why some who prefer ejector aren't interested, but once you ride it expecting no air or floater air, you'll be satisfied. Especially in the front.

Anyway, Intimidator is incredible. The sense of height you feel on it is unlike anything I've ever been on, and the drops are all crazy. That's why it flew up so high. Diamondback is pretty incredible too, even though it does have a slight rattle, but I found that to be befittng to its name
Nitro is good, really good, but it's not GREAT like I consider the others to be moreso. I've already stated that the only reason AC is so low is because I was expecting more of it and while it's very good, that disappointment sort of dropped it down.
It's funny 'cause I want to keep everything it my top ten -- in fact all of the coasters I have on the list besides Bull are rated 9 or better on my 1 - 10 scale, which translates to being awesome, so in my mind they're the creme of the crop, but I can't pack that many in, or it wouldn't be a top ten
And...Goliath. Goliath is beautiful. I love this ride, I love the layout and the drops, and the air time. But I couldn't figure out how it had gotten so rough. That's the problem with being a B&M - you have some pretty high standards to be upheld to, and one of the main ones is the smoothness of all of its sisters. The drops were fine but it vibrated so hard in the valleys that I got a headache from it. It didn't lose many points, but it's probably my least favorite out of the true hypers.
Raging Bull had a similar problem -- well, two. One is that I don't like twister coasters too much. Also, it had a lot of vibrations in the positive G's areas...and that's like half the ride.
I think they're all ranked pretty high considering I have 135 steel in my arsenal, which means all the true hypers are in the top 12%. That's enough to be honor society.

[Ryan Shrout]

Alright, finally time for me to really weigh in. My B&M Hypers are as follows:

• Diamondback
• Raging Bull
• Goliath (SFoG)
• Apollo's Chariot

Diamondback is at the top for one reason and one reason alone. Riding in the very back row of that super long train coming over the crest of the 215 ft, 75* first drop with your restrain a couple clicks loose gives the most insanely intense and sustained airtime I have experienced on any coaster. From the very crest of the lift to about 3/4 of the way down that great first drop, its nearly pure freefall. The remainder of the course provides the sense of speed and power that have become the hallmark for B&M Hypers. Bonus points for the waterspash. I also appreciate the layout not being your standard out and back.

Raging Bull is perhaps a bit of a sentimental favorite but a fantastic ride nonetheless. I love twister layout coasters and a good variety in Gs. Raging Bull pulls everything from about -1.2 ish from the back of the first drop, to a perfect 0 on the banked hill over the station. The valleys are intense; there are not one, but two, hammerhead turnarounds; and that ground hugging figure our is fantastic and delivers a nice amount of lats.

Goliath to me is just pure fun. The way the layout contours to the land the park had to work with and jumps over and around existing rides makes it gorgeous just in structure, but the ride itself is a fantastic example of a MCBR-less B&M mini-hyper. Ever hill provides solid floater air, and I even caught a couple moments of ejector air in the second half. The downward helix actually has some force to it and the horseshoe maneuver provides great visuals, especially from the right side of the train.

Lastly, Apollo's Chariot. It unfortunately suffered a combination of bad circumstances, to which I blame its position among my other hypers. Not that its a bad ride by any means. But it was my first hyper, and I didn't really know how to ride one, thus I got stapled on both rides. Secondly, being my first hyper, I had hyped it up way to much in my own mind; it just simply couldn't deliver what I expected it two. My one real point against the ride is its layout. Its rather boring. Straight hills out, a forceless helix, and then straight hills back. I hope to ride it again in the future though, and give the ride a chance to redeem itself.

[steel-Rock]

Many may have realized that this was on its way from me, but ...

B&M HYPERS ARE THE BOMB !!

Anyway, these are the ones now:
Apollo's Chariot (1)
Goliath, SFOG (2)
Diamondback (4)
Nitro (5)

These are the others that should be ridden soon:
Intimidator
Raging Bull
Behemoth
Goliath, La Ronde

As I have mentioned before, my top 10 or top 50 don't have near-clones that are ranked well in the whole list. These best of the best are a good variety of everything that I have been on. Two Intamin gigas, two inverts, a Morgan, a floorless looper, and a dive machine should stay toward the top even if I have gotten eight B&M hypers to my credit.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Edited by steel-Rock, 27 May 2011 - 06:58 PM.

[Mike Strobel]

Its kind of fascinating to me to see how either people really adore B&M hypers or outright hate them. Its like there's no in-between with them an people (its almost that way with B&M as a whole).

[steel-Rock]

^ I would have to say there is more emotion with this type of B&M than with some of the others. By in large, most coaster lovers like the inverts, sit-down loopers, and dive machines. There are completely different views from each of us on hypers, flyers, and stand-ups though. As for me, compared to Intamin, Gerstlauer, Mack Rides, Maurer Söhne, and Vekoma, B&M can do no wrong.

[Tori Finlay]

At one point, I thought B&M created good rides, but not great rides, but the more I ride them, the more I've come to appreciate their uniqueness and the huge variety in ride experience they can deliver.
I also like how my opinion is always like opposite from everybody else's.

Edited by Epinephrine, 27 May 2011 - 11:27 PM.

[Ryan Shrout]

Ya know what else I love about B&M anything over other manufacturers? B&M's don't break. They rarely malfunction. When they go down, they're back up within an hour most times. They don't have to close a ride after it opens to fix stuff. They don't have to add trims to an existing ride. They get it right, the first time, all the time.

[TexasCyclone]

Ya know what else I love about B&M anything over other manufacturers? B&M's don't break. They rarely malfunction. When they go down, they're back up within an hour most times. They don't have to close a ride after it opens to fix stuff. They don't have to add trims to an existing ride. They get it right, the first time, all the time.

Yeah they are definitely reliable and always deliver good, quality rides. I'm interested in seeing what new innovations they continue to make (wing-rider being the most recent)

[Coasterholic14]

B&M hypers are great because they not only provide great floater and/or ejector air, but such SUSTAINED airtime when compared to most other coasters. I remmeber Steel Force at Dorney providing tons of airtime, especially ejector air on those last bunny hills, but they just didn't sustain airtime for as long as B&Ms can with their parabolic hills. Plus there's the roar of a B&M, something about it is just awesome, the way it's literally like a deep roar just sounds mean. Their overbanked hammerheads win hands down over Intamins overbanked turns, and they just flow so well and have such great lines, combined with that box-shaped track and they're curves and they're just beatiful coasters to look at along a parks skyline. And four-wide trains provide such a unique experience on the "wings" as you get so much more vertical movement with changes in banking that you can really develop a favorite "side" along with a favorite row (i.e. I seem to prefer Intimidator, right-rear seat).

I have now officially been on 3 B&M hypers, and here's how I rank them (if you want to know more about why, ask and I can go into more detail):
1. Apollo's Chariot @ BGW
2. Goliath @ SFOG
3. Intimidator @ Carowinds

[Tori Finlay]

I would definitely like to know more information about your rankings, if you don't mind.

[Vicarious Chair]

...

Raging Bull is perhaps a bit of a sentimental favorite but a fantastic ride nonetheless. I love twister layout coasters and a good variety in Gs. Raging Bull pulls everything from about -1.2 ish from the back of the first drop, to a perfect 0 on the banked hill over the station. The valleys are intense; there are not one, but two, hammerhead turnarounds; and that ground hugging figure our is fantastic and delivers a nice amount of lats.

I agree with everything, but your views on some things are a little skewed. -1.2g's in back row on the drop? I dunno about that. Maybe -1G at the most. I'd say between -.7 and -1G. And lats? Noo lats on RB. Everything is heartlined on RB and the transitions are gentle enough, so no real lats, but ground hugging-high vertical G forces plenty.

But yeah, RB is one of my favorite rides ranked amongst the Cedar Point rides I love, in my opinion.

Edited by Vicarious Chair, 01 June 2011 - 11:18 PM.

[GADVFREAK99]

I have been on a fair share of them, seven out of the 10 here are my rankings

1) Nitro @ SF GADV - I know it is in my home park but, it is by far the best B&M Hyper I have ridden beause it isn't crammed in like most hypers are, it goes into the back woods and the airtime is great.
2) Intimidator @ Carowinds
3) Diamondback @ Kings Island
4) Apollo's Charriots @ BGW
5) Raging Bull @ SF Great America
6) Goliath @ SF OG
7) Goliath @ La Ronda

[Thunderhead]

[/quote]


[quote name='GADVFREAK99' timestamp='1306992902' post='242205']
I have been on a fair share of them, seven out of the 10 here are my rankings

1) Nitro @ SF GADV - I know it is in my home park but, it is by far the best B&M Hyper I have ridden beause it isn't crammed in like most hypers are, it goes into the back woods and the airtime is great.
2) Intimidator @ Carowinds
3) Diamondback @ Kings Island
4) Apollo's Charriots @ BGW
5) Raging Bull @ SF Great America
6) Goliath @ SF OG
7) Goliath @ La Ronda





[/quote]

Crammed in? Define yourself here. As far as I know a lot of those aren't what I would consider crammed in. Some may follow the border of the park but other than that I don't seem crammed in.

Edited by Thunderhead, 02 June 2011 - 01:17 AM.

[Daniel Westfall]

I believe he's talking about scenery as well as footprint. Larger footprint with terrain and scenery=awesome (for him). I'll let him add more or correct me if I'm wrong.

[BJ KoasterKooK]

Been meaning to get back to this one for awhile now, looks like some great posts have been added, and i especially appreciate guys like VC and GADFREAK99 taking the time to weigh in with their valuable thoughts.


First, i couldn't agree more with both Ryan's and Brandon's assessments of some of B&M's greatest attributes, including developing a "fav" seat in the 4 wides once you've gotten a serious number of rides on a given ride that were talking about here.

For me, that would be the front right seat of Alpie, and with the Hypers, a rear right outside seat on the Chariot (or either outside front seat, for that matter) .


G.F.99's post, wow, great list ya got there, along with Tori's big six, you've obviously gotten much experience, and, done your homework to state what both B&M and RCDB say are a Hyper list of 10 in the world overall. But here is where i disagree with both B&M and RCDB...the simple definitive truth of a Hyper/Mega is that they either have a 200' height, or a 200' drop (usually 1st drop, duh). Apollos Chariot makes it in spite of a 170' lift height with a drop of 210'. SFOG's Golaith purportedly hits the 200' height on the nose.


But, Japan's Hollywood Dream @ USJ is only 144' high, and although i am ignorant of it's drop, i'm fairly sure from my research that it's no where's near 200', so ya just can't include it, sorry. It's listed top speed is only 56mph, which also reveals a shorter drop.

Also, Goliaith @ LaRonde is 175' high with a 171' drop @ 68mph...close, but no cigar. Thus, we are left with only 8 truly Hyper B&M Sitdowns in the world, so G.F.99's & Tori's list are all that more impressive.


Honestly and sincerely, i have no idea why any coaster enthusiast would disparage a B&M Hyper, any or all of them. No, it doesn't have to be your favorite, in fact, they're probably about 3rd best in my eyes, following B&M Invert's and Intamin Mega's. C'mon man, these are all superior rides, regardless your personal preference.

One more bit of factual truth to spread here, let's look at Mitch Hawkers latest and greatest steel results for 2010 and consider a very interesting point of truth. While no B&M Hyper broke into the top 10, and barely the top 15 even, look at how close the rest were.\, both to each other, and the top of the ratings. Dig this:

#15-Behemouth @ Canada's Wonderland

#16-Goliath @ SFOG

#17-Goliath @ La Ronde (but not a true Hyper remember)

#18-Nitro @ SFGAd

#19-Diamondback @ KI

#21-Intimidator @ Carowinds

#22-Apollos Chariot @ BGW

How's that for a tight, high rated pack of coasters?? Only Raging Bull @ #54, and the relatively unknown (at least to moi) Silver Star @ Europa Park @ #74 are lower rated.

So there ya have it, no other coaster model with a decent amount of examples out there are ranked so consistently high, year after year, whether built in 99', or in the last couple of years, they all garner loads of respect from the worldwide coaster community as a whole.

And I'm very glad to be part of it, and in agreement with it overall . Much food for thought, eh?

[Coasterholic14]

Ok, well, here's my opinions on the three I've been on:

1. Apollo's Chariot @ BGW
The reason this coaster is my favorite because there is non-stop airtime on every hill, and it especially finishes with a bang with some excellent ejector air on the last couple drops just before the finish (it ends on a massive high-note). I also love the pre-drop and then the drop onto the flat track above the water, no other B&M Hyper has that straight flat track like that, and it really allows you to have a second to sense just how fast it is. Hoping up and down over the treeline is fun as well, and the giant rising helix turnaround provides some great positive G-forces to counter-balance all the airtime you get. The layout feels nice and long, there are plenty of hills, and again, it's non-stop action start to finish with a perfect finale.

2. Goliath @ SFOG
Much like Apollo's Chariot, Goliath packs a great variety of airtime from start to finish, with some nice floater moments, and plenty of ejector airtime. The helix turnaround is intense and really throws some strong extended G's at you, much like AC, but spiraling down...after two straight rides on the back my bro and I both actually began experiencing a brown-out near the exit of it. There are virtually no trims on the ride other than the one after the helix, and best of all, no MCBR! Also, the overbanked turnaround provides a nice fun "whipping" action. It finishes with some nice air-filled bunny hops. It only falls short of AC b/c it can be a bit bumpy in the back, and it doesn't finish quite as strong, but it's got plenty to offer throughout the ride.

3. Intimidator @ Carowinds
It's a solid ride, no doubt. The first drop is outstanding, especially from the back seat, the hammerhead is fun (though I wish it were a bit "tighter" and not as stretched out), and the second hill S-curve dive is fantastic. Honestly, where it falls short in comparison is 3 places: 1) There are only 3 true airtime hills, 4 counting the S-curving second hill...AC and Goliath have a lot more, 2) Most of the air you get is more floater, with little or no ejector...best air is on the first drop probably, 3) The MCBR is too close to the end, and there is very little after the MCBR, and what there is isn't much (no real airtime from any seat, helix isn't intense at all). Up to the MCBR, the ride is on par in layout, just behind in airtime though, but I feel the section after the MCBR is so short and relatively forceless in comparison to the other two, it really detracts from the overall ride. Maybe I was expecting or hoping for too much being my home park coaster (and the first worthy addition to the park since 1999 Top Gun/Afterburn), but the ride pretty much ends to me at the MCBR. I would have rather seen them take that out, make a rightward, upward spiraling helix near the S-curve and have a full bunny hill where the MCBR is before diving into the helix. If that were the case, Intimidator may be number 1 instead of 3 out of the B&M Hypers, but it just leaves me a bit underwhelmed in comparison.

[steel-Rock]

G.F.99's post, wow, great list ya got there, along with Tori's big six, you've obviously gotten much experience, and, done your homework to state what both B&M and RCDB say are a Hyper list of 10 in the world overall. But here is where i disagree with both B&M and RCDB...the simple definitive truth of a Hyper/Mega is that they either have a 200' height, or a 200' drop (usually 1st drop, duh). Apollos Chariot makes it in spite of a 170' lift height with a drop of 210'. SFOG's Golaith purportedly hits the 200' height on the nose.


But, Japan's Hollywood Dream @ USJ is only 144' high, and although i am ignorant of it's drop, i'm fairly sure from my research that it's no where's near 200', so ya just can't include it, sorry. It's listed top speed is only 56mph, which also reveals a shorter drop.

Also, Goliaith @ LaRonde is 175' high with a 171' drop @ 68mph...close, but no cigar. Thus, we are left with only 8 truly Hyper B&M Sitdowns in the world, so G.F.99's & Tori's list are all that more impressive.


Honestly and sincerely, i have no idea why any coaster enthusiast would disparage a B&M Hyper, any or all of them. No, it doesn't have to be your favorite, in fact, they're probably about 3rd best in my eyes, following B&M Invert's and Intamin Mega's. C'mon man, these are all superior rides, regardless your personal preference.

A while ago I believe we talked about what is a hyper. Although not a B&M, both the park and the builder calls Steel Eel a "hyper". I guess they are saying that a sit-down non-looping steel coaster with airtime hills is what we are looking at. So the layout is what we are going for not height. So even at just 150ft, SeaWorld San Antonio's "big" ride was a lot of fun. Some hard trims before the turnaround was why I dropped it down on my list a bit. It still had some great -g's on the way out and back.