35 replies to this topic

[Bretten Bailey]

As of January 4th, 2012, we are under the Matt Ouimet Era of Cedar Fair.

We have just left the historic Kinzel Era in which we saw the coaster wars last for more than a decade, new & innovative rides sprout up at the Cedar Fair Parks and Cedar Fair grow into one of the Worlds Largest Amusement Park Chains. While some people may not be pleased with his business decisions...people need to remember that it wasn't just up to him with the decisions. There is a such thing as a Board of Directors. Anyway, farewell Kinzel.

Now we surge forward into the era of Matt Ouimet. The new CEO has lots of experience as a higher up within the Disney Chain. We all know that we will be seeing some "magic" from this guy no doubt. In the Ouimet Era, we will be seeing more characters in costume, more live performances, more "surprises" and we will even head into an era where families will come to parks and enjoy. In addition to this, under Matt Ouimet, we will be seeing more themed rides open at the park. New technologies, more theming....the options are endless. What else do you think we'll see in this new era?

Below I have listed everything NEW within the Chain for 2012. While these were planned under Kinzel, they will open underneath Ouimet in his first season as CEO. Feel free to add anymore below and I will re-edit the posts. The properties with the "&" are waterparks included with admission while the "/" indicate separate admission.

2012 Additions To Cedar Fair Parks-

Cedar Point/Soak City Resort-Sandusky, Ohio- "Dinosaurs Alive! on Adventure Island". Mat Racer Racing Slide in Soak City. Other additional Capital Improvements

Canada's Wonderland & SplashWorks-Vaughan, Ontario- "Leviathan" Bolliger & Mabillard Giga Mega Coaster. Dinosaurs Alive!. Other Additional Capital Improvements

Dorney Park & Wildwater Kingdom-Allentown, Pennsylvania- "Stinger" Vekoma Inverted Boomerang Invertigo Model. Dinosaurs Alive! Other Additional Capital Improvements

Kings Dominion & WaterWorks-Doswell, Virginia- "WindSeeker" Mondial WindSeeker Ride. Dinosaurs Alive! Other Additional Capital Improvements

Carowinds & Boomerang Bay-Charlotte, North Carolina/Fort Mill, South Carolina-"WindSeeker" Mondial WindSeeker Ride. Other Additional Capital Improvements.

Kings Island & Soak City-Kings Mills, Ohio-"Boomerang Bay" rebranded as "Soak City", New Entrance built. New Wave Pool. Lazy River rethemed to "Action River". New lounges & cabanas. Other Additional Capital Improvements.

Michigan's Adventure & Wildwater Adventure-Muskegon, Michigan-Capital Improvements

Valleyfair & Soak City-Shakopee, Minnesota-Capital Improvements and possible "Starlight Spectacular"

Knotts Berry Farm/Knotts Soak City Resort-Buena Park, California-Capital Improvements
.
California's Great America & Boomerang Bay-Santa Clara, California-Cedar Fair WILL retain ownership. Capital Improvements will take place.

Worlds of Fun/Oceans of Fun-Kansas City, Missouri-Caribou Coffee Location added, More updated restaurants. "Wacky Worm" moved to Planet Snoopy. Expansion of Halloween Haunt. Capital Improvements

The Other Two Knott's Soak City Parks-Palm Springs & San Diego, California-Nothing new. General Improvements.

Wildwater Kingdom-Aurora, Ohio-Nothing new. General Improvements

Castaway Bay Indoor Waterpark Resort-Sandusky, Ohio-Nothing new. General Improvements

Gilroy Gardens Family Theme Park-Gilroy, California (Not Owned by Cedar Fair but operated by Management Contract)-Nothing New. General Improvements.

*In addition, all parks will experience changes for the 2012 Season. All the parks will get new websites with the major ones coming this month. The rest will transition to their new sites before Late May. Tickets and all that jazz will be easier to buy online (including Season Passes). Also, more entertainment will be added to all the parks in 2012, including more concert events. Costumed Characters will be out in more force as well. Some special surprises will also occur in 2012. In addition, a lot of the above parks will introduce the "Fast Pass" option next year.

Now, for 2013, of course things are hazy, and in a lot of minds, you can only throw out your best guesses. Well, here are some possibilities. In addition, feel free to expand this topic and talk about the next 3, 5, even 10 years down the road. Where will the parks be then? What do you hope for?

2013 Possibilities/Rumors/Predictions-

Cedar Point/Soak City-Bolliger & Mabillard Coaster. Location will actually probably be near Space Spiral/Disaster Transport near the Parking Lot there (the long rumored location for the Woodie everyone wanted). With the Wing Rider craze that is overtaking the nation, I think there is a decent bet this possible coaster will be a Wing Rider. However, at CoasterMania a few years ago they did say "A Dive Machine isn't out of the question". So there is another possibility. I'd say a Floorless would be the next best bet after these two. Seeing as the park has Magnum XL-200 & Millennium Force, I'd say a Mega (or Mega Giga) Coaster for that matter is out of the question. Obviously a Stand-Up & Inverted is as well due to the fact that "Mantis" & "Raptor" are here. I'd say, other than that, a Flyer is the least likely after a Floorless. However, B&M could also introduce something new. So lets not just stick to their catalog here.

California's Great America-New Rollercoaster. That GCI Woodie that has been in limbo since 2008 perhaps?

Knott's Berry Farm-Well, signs are pointing to a new coaster next year. There is a lot of land clearing going on. This could either be a Very Tall Intamin Mega, Mega-Lite or Giga Coaster. Add a B&M Mega or Mega-Giga Coaster to the list. My guess is that it will be one of these with one of the last two seeming more likely.

Now, I think those will be the major new additions in 2013. With a lot of money going towards these attractions, the rest of the parks will see either see a new flat ride, general improvements or a Dinosaurs Alive! Eventually, I think every park (with the exception of Gilroy Gardens and the Waterparks) will have a "WindSeeker" & Dinosaurs Alive!

Valleyfair-If 2012 doesn't see the "Starlight Spectacular", then I think it will come in 2013. I also think the park will get a "WindSeeker".

Michigan's Adventure-Hmm, this one is hard to call. Could we see a new flat ride along with Dinosaurs Alive? I think 2013 won't be the year of the "WindSeeker" at MiA.....but that time will soon come. I would think this is where Dinosaurs Alive! will go in soon.

Worlds of Fun-I can see both Dinosaurs Alive! & "WindSeeker" going in here for 2013.

I don't really know with the other ones....but feel free to share if you have any guesses or info. I think 2013 is when we will see everything with Ouimet really start to get incorporated. I'd say this is when that "magic with technology" will take over. There will probably be a "Fast Pass" at every park (that has the capacity to do so) and there will be improvements for it for 2013. I think we'll see some other fun surprises as well.

Edited by CFguy, 08 January 2012 - 12:15 AM.

[The BeastFan]

I feel that CF has been going by the book a bit too long now. They've been adding the same things to the parks and I feel within the last few years, CF parks have been unoriginal in new additions. Yes, the Windseekers and Dinos were OK the first round of additions, but doing it again for more parks, most of which are fairly close in proximity to one another, seems a tad bit of overkill. Now, I will state that the Dinos have been a HUGE success at Kings Island from a financial stand point. During the summer, they were pulling in 5 figures a day ($10K+). Though I'm skeptical it'll work out so well in the parks close to KI like Cedar Point or Canada's Wonderland, I'll keep an eye on KD's run with them.

I also feel they could do more in bringing theming back into the parks. A lot of what bolstered KI's early success was the fact it maintained specific theming in tact for each area. Six Flags does this to an extent with their DC themed areas, and I feel a lot of the CF parks have that kind of potential, particularly Kings Island and Knotts.

It just feels like that lately CF has been extremely mediocre and nothing stands out about the chain outside its top tier parks, and even those are starting to lose some luster. Nothing sticks out about Cedar Fair. I feel that's a big area of concern after the stellar line up Six Flags has in store for their parks in 2012 and only 1 park in the CF chain got anything worthy of note (Leviathan at CW).

[Bretten Bailey]

I can definitely see what you're saying there.

Thankfully, 2011 was a good year across the board for Cedar Fair and their parks. Attendance is up, profit is up and thankfully they ranked highest in the operating margin. This is a good step for the company to staSrt paying off the massive debt. Another wave that could potentially help the company is if the old Geauga Lake land gets sold.

However, with at least "Dinosaurs Alive!", depending on how they do this year at the parks, I am sure to see them spread into the other parks in the chain still. Hopefully visitors (and I think it should also get marketed this way) will see that there are different dinosaurs at each venue and hopefully still give them a shot. The one at Kings Island is still the largest and has the most creatures. I think the settings of each will help make them a draw. We'll see at the end of this next season how things went, but hopefully it works for them. This is a two-for-one shot, a theming comeback and a family attraction. I don't know how well it would fair at Michigan's Adventure though....with the $5 added price, I don't know if people would do that up there. Then again though, it is something new and people could eat it up. That's the thing with this industry, it's all a gamble.

As for theming, I am sure we'll see it come back with Matt Ouimet now. He's a fan of it after working for Disney I'm sure. We'll see what he does for the parks themes in the next few years. We're all longing for the day of the return of the dark rides at the parks. I'm sure we aren't that far off.

As for Cedar Fair being mediocre. They have a lot to contend with right now with their debt and the transition under Ouimet. There was a brief period where Six Flags had to cutback as well. However. Six Flags didn't succeed and stock dropped terribly and they ended up filing for bankruptcy. Cedar Fair is trying to avoid that, so the cuts are being made where they can be cut. Eventually everything will build up steam once the whole debt situation is done. Thankfully, it seems like things are moving pretty quickly in that direction. I'm sure all will come out ok in the end.

[Tori Finlay]

Come to think of it, I hadn't realized that Dino Alive wasn't going into MiA... but why isn't it? Isn't it a family park and DA! is a family-themed attraction. Why not? Also, Dorney won't be getting a windseeker unless they can make them smaller due to Lehigh Valley International being a few miles away.

[Bretten Bailey]

Come to think of it, I hadn't realized that Dino Alive wasn't going into MiA... but why isn't it? Isn't it a family park and DA! is a family-themed attraction. Why not? Also, Dorney won't be getting a windseeker unless they can make them smaller due to Lehigh Valley International being a few miles away.

It's iffy as to how it would do at MiA but I think it'd go over fairly well. It is a family park and it is in some need of TLC. It did get "Beach Party" last year which people seem to like, but the last larger addition was "Thunderhawk" in 2008.

They may be able to make them smaller for one to go in at Dorney. However, as a pilot myself, building a 301 foot tall WindSeeker there wouldn't be too much of an issue depending on where they placed it at. The rules are that you must fly at least 500 feet above the highest obstacle. Dorney could get a variance if there is one listed against the park to be able to build this structure (as long as it wouldn't be in the approach path of an aircraft coming to land on the runway), there are several areas in the park that this would fit. My town has a building about 600 feet tall 2.8 miles from the airport (and it's also an International Airport with more runways) The back section of Dorney Park is 2.4 miles from the airport and the structure would be smaller. These are just stating basic rules, there could be more behind it, but I can see it being as least "possible". Heck, I wouldn't have a problem if they made it a tad smaller, it would offer something different. Might as well put a smaller one in at MiA too because a 301 foot one going in there would make it stick out like a sore thumb (RipCord is the tallest ride around 183 feet).

Edited by CFguy, 09 January 2012 - 03:59 PM.

[Bretten Bailey]

As promised, the new websites started coming online yesterday. I think the new sites are VERY user-friendly, look neat and have loads of information for guests. In addition, they help guests weigh ticket & resort options. Very neat.

The following sites have come online (including their Waterpark companions (i.e Soak City Cedar Points' New Website is Up)-

-Cedar Point
-Kings Island
-Kings Dominion
-Canada's Wonderland
-Knott's Berry Farm

Before the season starts, all of the parks websites will transition to this new format.

[Ryan Shrout]

Love the new site design. The banner sized pics are cool. I kinda miss the old CF skyline border on top of the site though.

[Tori Finlay]

^Agreed. That was pretty cool.

I'm excited to see what Ouimet brings to the parks as work places - if anything changes in operations. Hm.

[Bretten Bailey]

^The one with the animated rides? I loved that as well.

There are a lot of inconsistencies among the sites, with Kings Dominion being the most odd-ball of them all. Of course they just switched everything over and are probably trying to see which one works the best before all of them are like that. There are a lot of glitches to work out as well I'm sure.

Carowinds, Worlds of Fun, Dorney Park, California's Great America, Valleyfair, Michigan's Adventure, The Knott's Soak City's and Wildwater Kingdom will soon follow with site updates (all will basically be what the new sites are)

[Bretten Bailey]

I normally don't do posts after another one when someone hasn't replied, but I think this deserves its own new post.

For those who haven't heard about the "FUNforward" presentation yesterday, then here is what will be going on with Cedar Fair in the immediate future.

-In a half a season, Fast Lane generated nearly $1 million at Kings Island. Matt Ouimet stated that it is meant to be implemented to not disrupt anyone who does not have a Fast Lane pass (so we may be seeing something similar to Six Flag's Flash Pass). Fast Lane will be implemented at all 11 Amusement Parks next year (yes, this includes Michigan's Adventure)

-Fast Lane will be available at Halloween Attractions during any Haunts, HalloWeekends and Scarowinds. It will be redubbed "Fright Lane".

-Ticket Prices have gone up at most parks and the rest may follow. However, if bought online, they will be cheaper than if bought at the park. Ticket Prices for Cedar Point have gone up $2. However, they are $7 cheaper if bought online.

-The new websites will all be live before season starts. It is expected that these new sites will drive people to the parks generating a good cash flow. Ticket buying will also be easier.

-There will be a good "Family:Teen" ratio. Thrill Rides will still be built, but so will family rides. The belief is that if there is a good ratio mix, then profits will be maximized.

-"Luminosity-Ignite the Night!" will debut at Cedar Point this year. It is a HUGE upgrade to last years night time show. It will feature fireworks, pyro and lasers.

-There will be quality enhancements in the food sector of the parks. The food will be worth the money. The hamburger stands will feature fresh, never frozen burgers.

-There will be big enhancements in the Resorts as well.

-There will be "Premium Experiences" for guests who want to pay for it...this includes Dining and Parking.

-Season Pass processes and such will be upgraded soon. This includes a possible "month-by-month" payment instead of a one time payment for it. There will also be easier renewal options and better discount redemptions.

-More characters will be featured at the parks. Expect to see more costumed characters. In addition, Woodstock & Franklin will join the character ensemble.

-Matt wants to make sure that everyone knows that what he is doing with the chain is "inspired by Disney" but "Is NOT Disney".

-It was stated that "Dinosaurs Alive!" & "WindSeeker" has done wonders for the chain. There was also brief talk about "Leviathan" which is their pride attraction for next year.

-For 2012, $90 million will go in to new attractions and capital improvements for each of the properties.

-There is a stated set Five-Year Capital Plan. This includes about 9% of earnings each year. 9% will also go towards maintenance.

-It was mentioned that there would be a lot more experiences and improvements (and rides) added to the parks over the next few seasons.

-California's Great America was mentioned as there being "plans".

-There is a new "Thrills Connect" Advertising Campaign for the parks New in 2012. This includes numerous slogans proving that there is a mix of family & thrills at each of the parks. These slogans include "Sometimes finding common ground happens ten stories above it", "They may not hug you anymore, but they'll squeeze your hand for dear life" & "At 120mph, kids can't roll their eyes at you".

-Looking into rides and expansions in the future. Mr. Ouimet stated they will be making use of "undeveloped land" for expansion. Also, he plans for the chain to remain innovative with new rides and attractions with research while asking the companies to offer lower prices. He also stated that parks will serve as "test beds" and if something does good, it'll be expanded. Fast Lane is a perfect example of this (as is Dinosaurs Alive!). Maybe Luminosity will end up at other parks next year as well.

That just about sums it all up. I think we are looking at some great years ahead.

Edited by CFguy, 20 January 2012 - 06:49 PM.

[Reapers Ashes]

sounds like alot of good hope to see michiagn adventurs expand

[Bretten Bailey]

Some Quick Updates. I find this a bit easier than going through to individual park threads (and some of the parks don't even have threads). If you would like, you could post information from here on respective park threads.

Cedar Fair under Ouimet updates as of today.

Cedar Fair Chain Overall

-Websites-All of the Cedar Fair parks with the exception of Valleyfair & Michigan's Adventure have been updated to the new standard Cedar Fair template. Valleyfair & Michigan's Adventure's websites will be changed by the end of the month (with Michigan's Adventure's site proposed to go online February 28th). There are still a lot of tweaks that have to be done with the site. Each park will have a blog & TV channel. Webcams will also come in the future. All the sites will be pretty much the same and all have the similar features. Canada's Wonderland, King's Island & Knott's Berry Farm are the only sites thus far to have their "Fast Lane" rides listed. The rest of the parks will be updating their sites to reflect their rides as well. As discussed, cheaper ticket options can be purchased online at the parks respective websites.

-Fast Lane Price-There are a good number of rides for each "Fast Lane" ticket. The best is, the more you buy, the cheaper it is. You can go as low as $30. You have to pick your trip date in advance at each park though as only a limited number will be sold per day (this is so it doesn't interfere with a regular park-goers day. Ouimet wants to make it simple and wants everyone to be happy). All parks will be getting "Fast Lane" next year (yes, that includes Michigan's Adventure).

-Meal Deals-This is still just a rumor, but some of the parks have been announcing "Meal Deals" & "Meal Plans". This could become chain wide as a way to save money. It could be similar to what Busch Gardens Tampa does with their all-day dining deal (but not on as large of a level). Season Pass holders get a discounted meal deal.

-General Manager Twitter Account-A new thing that Matt has some of the GM's doing is interacting with enthusiasts and the general public via Twitter. Thus far Greg Scheid (GM of Kings Island) & John Hildebrandt (GM of Cedar Point) have Twitters. Ya gotta wonder if the rest of the chain will go this way too. The best is, thus far, they have updated almost everyday they've had their accounts and usually include some good information. Here are the links-
-Greg Scheid-http://twitter.com/#!/KIGMGREG
-John Hildebrandt-http://twitter.com/#!/cpgmJohn

____________________________________________________________________________

Cedar Point Updates-

-Luminosity: Ignite the Night-This show is said to include fireworks, pyrotechnics, lights, music & lasers. The Big Screen located near "WildCat" & "Iron Dragon" will be REMOVED (Yes, there will be a good view of the midway now). In addition, lights are being replaced on some rides (and according to Twitter, "Giant Wheel" may be one of them as the old lights are being removed). This could be the beginning process for "Luminosity". No official details have been released yet.

-New Electronic Lockers-Over 2900 NEW Electronic Lockers have been installed in both Cedar Point & Soak City. This will lead to improved service according to John Hildebrandt. I'm sure these are similar to the lockers used at Universal where your finger is scanned. Hopefully this will become a chain wide thing. One can hope that they install some outside of rides and operate it like they do at Universal (where the locker is FREE for 10 minutes more than the wait time of the ride). Business wise, I think people will be able to spend more money on other stuff if this were the case. In addition, renting a locker to ride a water ride won't be as much of a hassle because you know you have more time in addition to the wait.

-New Soak City Slide Colors-Just updated to Twitter this morning, in direct quotes from John-"Lime Green.Signal Violet. Bright Red Orange.Sky Blue.Traffic Melon. Water Blue.Telemagenta. Dahlia Yellow. New colors for SC slides in 2012."

-"Mean Streak" Re-Tracking by GCI- I don't think it's a secret on here anymore, but a lot of other people on other forums (including some Cedar Point fan forums) have no clue about Great Coasters International re-tracking "Mean Streak". While it isn't a complete rebuild, reprofile or overhaul, GCI has done some good rehabbing to "Mean Streak"'s troubled spots. People this year have already noticed a better and smoother ride in these areas. Work is still being done this off-season and this work is also part of the reason that the coaster closed before HalloWeekends this year (with the year before being because of the fire and the work beginning). It is expected that GCI will be finished with work this season and that the ride will remain open for HalloWeekends this year.

-"Cedar Creek Mine Ride" with "Gemini" Trains?-While still not confirmed, testings of the back up "Gemini" trains have gone occurred on "Cedar Creek Mine Ride". Hopefully we'll get an update on this soon (I'm sure John will let us know on Twitter).

-2013 Coaster-A 2013 Coaster is looking more likely. Signs are still pointing towards a B&M. Either a Dive Machine or a Wing Rider are the latest rumors. Screamscape has reported that the option may be a Dive Machine. At CoasterMania a few years ago during the Q&A, it was stated that a "Dive Machine was not out of the question". With the Chicago market getting a Wing Rider, who knows if Cedar Point will jump on the band wagon to build a Wing Rider. Kinzel disliked Flyers, and this coaster was planned under him, so everyone is doubting we'll see a flyer. This leaves either a Dive Machine or Wing Rider, as stated, if it is a creation by Bolliger & Mabillard.

-"Disaster Transport" Upgrade-Now that we can see the changes that Ouimet is bringing to the table, it is likely that "Disaster Transport" will probably get upgraded. He obviously doesn't like rides that are giving the chain problems or suffer from low ridership (see "Crpyt" at King's Island), so if the ride isn't upgraded, who knows what will happen with its leaky structure. The ride still is a hit with families and kids, so removing it would make that crowd unhappy. No matter what the theme is, I'm sure Matt can make this coaster a hit again with a good Return on Investment. He was at Disneyland when the NEW "Space Mountain" was rebuilt, so I'm sure some "magic" could be done here. Fixing the leaky structure would be ideal, dusting off the ride scenes and installing new lights on the inside would work wonders and the space theme could stick around. Or, the ride could be completely re-themed, re-named and re-branded. A lot of people think it should be re-themed to something related to Snoopy & PEANUTS (a la Snoopy vs. Red Baron) or something of the sort. Others are thinking something along a Concert Experience. Either way, I'm sure if it is redone, it'll be good. Maybe talking to Intamin about a new train design to bring the height requirement down to say 42 inches would do wonders for families as well.

_____________________________________________________________________________

Kings Island Updates-

-"The Crypt" Removal/Future of the Site-I'm sure it's no surprise to anyone that "The Crypt" is now being removed after a very short life. The ride has only been around about 10 years, but has basically tore itself apart. It has been a maintenance nightmare the past few years and will be replaced with a New Halloween Haunt Attraction. Hmm, the building is staying?.....maybe something will be built inside of it in the near future?


-"Invertigo" Gets New Paintjob-"Invertigo" is getting the same Teal Paintjob that "Stinger" has now. This is a bit bizarre as I would love to see differences in the paint styles. However, the new color does look great and it won't fade as quickly now.

-New Coaster Rumor-A rumor is floating around about another possible coaster addition in the near future. That's about all that has been stated thus far (sadly).

-Soak City Update-The new Soak City Entrance Work is still going on. The landscaping department will be using Rubber Mulch in areas of Soak City as well. According to Greg, its "Very Eco-Friendly and looks great"


-Food Updates-New Food Items are on the way this year (as to be expected with the increased quality now). This was Greg's latest Twitter update-"Our Foods team is revamping menu offerings everywhere. Get ready for some great tasting cheese steaks at Snake Pit. More menu changes TBA"

-"Son of Beast" Fate-Who really knows for sure, but the latest rumor is that SoB will remain wood and will just feature Topper Track from Rocky Mountain Coasters. I'm sure this would improve the ride a bunch. The ride will be on the way out I'm sure if this rumor doesn't hold true as evidenced with Matt's opinion of rides like this (once again, see "Crypt").
______________________________________________________________________________

California's Great America Updates

-GCI Wooden Coaster Project-This was submitted to the City of Santa Clara yesterday-http://smartpermit.s...o=PLN2012-09049. Is the new GCI Coaster on the horizon??

Edited by CFguy, 15 February 2012 - 10:01 AM.

[The BeastFan]

^I don't know exactly where you got your information, but Son of Beast needs WAY more than a simple topper track re-do to get it back in working order. It needs an ENTIRE structure overhaul (at minimum, the entire rose bowl), as they never really fixed the problems from the 2006 accident (they simply re-built the structure and added lighter trains, which over time, will just cause the same amount of damage at a slower rate, not to mention they are trains not meant to for Son of Beast's track, also oddly enough, Don Helbig is quoted as saying it had nothing to do with the 2006 accident, figure that logic out ). The forensics reports state the ride was poorly maintained and all of the adjustments, both smaller ones made through its life and possibly even the 2007 refurbishment to replace the loop and add new trains (I doubt anyone will come forward to admit to doing it after the 2009 incident), were done without consultation from a major coaster firm. That said, with the amount of money the park has shelled into it already, it needs to be torn down, period.

All in all, topper track would be an absolutely terrible option for Son of Beast to remain standing compared to something like going for the Iron Horse methods.

Edited by The BeastFan, 16 February 2012 - 09:19 PM.

[PKIDelirium]

Topper track ain't gonna happen. The existing tracking is fine, it's the structure that sucks. It has serious structural engineering and integrity issues, especially now that it's been classified as "abandon in place" and unmaintained since 2009.

Probably the only reason it's still standing is that it would cost a fortune to demolish, especially with implosion of the lift structure impossible due to close proximity to Adventure Express and Flight Deck.

[Bretten Bailey]

^I don't know exactly where you got your information, but Son of Beast needs WAY more than a simple topper track re-do to get it back in working order. It needs an ENTIRE structure overhaul (at minimum, the entire rose bowl), as they never really fixed the problems from the 2006 accident (they simply re-built the structure and added lighter trains, which over time, will just cause the same amount of damage at a slower rate, not to mention they are trains not meant to for Son of Beast's track, also oddly enough, Don Helbig is quoted as saying it had nothing to do with the 2006 accident, figure that logic out ). The forensics reports state the ride was poorly maintained and all of the adjustments, both smaller ones made through its life and possibly even the 2007 refurbishment to replace the loop and add new trains (I doubt anyone will come forward to admit to doing it after the 2009 incident), were done without consultation from a major coaster firm. That said, with the amount of money the park has shelled into it already, it needs to be torn down, period.

All in all, topper track would be an absolutely terrible option for Son of Beast to remain standing compared to something like going for the Iron Horse methods.

The structure would be worked on while installing the Topper Track.

Topper track ain't gonna happen. The existing tracking is fine, it's the structure that sucks. It has serious structural engineering and integrity issues, especially now that it's been classified as "abandon in place" and unmaintained since 2009.

Probably the only reason it's still standing is that it would cost a fortune to demolish, especially with implosion of the lift structure impossible due to close proximity to Adventure Express and Flight Deck.

The structure and track both have problems. It has been stated that there were numerous fractures in the track itself, not just the structure. Topper Track would help fix up the track and help eliminate the stress areas. The structure can be worked on and the ride restored to working order. The question here is actually would it be worth the investment?

And yeah, I would hate to see how much it would cost to bring the ride down.

Edited by CFguy, 16 February 2012 - 11:45 PM.

[The BeastFan]

If you noticed with Texas Giant, it underwent an extreme makeover on its layout with the Iron Horse. I would highly expect the layout would be entirely new after the first drop, getting rid of the rose bowl, adding in some air time hills or anything different from what's already there, and possibly bringing back the loop (which RMC says they can do).

I have solid proof it needs a structure overhaul. I have a link to the 2006 forensics report which I'll happily post at the end of this. The splinter was a vertical timber in the structure, not the track, and considering the entire rosebowl is built in a similar fashion and wasn't changed post-2006 (going visually here, no new wood seen after 2007), it is a structure hazzard. In addition, you'll find 2 neat paragraphs at the end of it stating the nature of which Rick Schmizze (the forensics investigator) summarizes as to how Kings Island took care of Son of Beast from 2000-2006 (along with the fact he could unscrew bolts by hand, thus, the existing structure sways too much). I'll let those speak for themselves. Again, using different methods with an existing structure already determined to be faulty will just cause the same damage over a longer span. It needs a universally long term plan in place to keep it running. The topper track would be just another band-aid style approach which the park has done throughout the entire life of the ride. The topper track would just be going over bad track designs, as I only assmume the 2007 rennovations were done in house and not by the likes of, say, Gravity Group and GCI, which, as we saw in 2009, still has problems. Besides, who in the world would be brazen enough to build new trains for this? PTC's and the current G-trains aren't the answer. Trust me, I know from experience. PTC's would just ruin it further and the G-trains run horribly on it. Gravity Group won't touch it unless they get to re-design significant portions of it, and the same goes for Intamin and GCI.

Link to a PDF file of the 2006 investigation done by Rick Schmizze.

Link to Rick Schmizze being quoted on his findings.

Link to the editorial I did on SOB, covering its entire history, with additional links to various stories and such.

Also, don't bother using ODA reports to prove its fine, which they apparently said it was. With the rap sheet SOB has, the ODA reports hold little bearing on anything. Greg Scheid was smart enough to realize that when he shut it down in 2009.

Edited by The BeastFan, 16 February 2012 - 11:27 PM.

[Ryan Shrout]

I don't think the demo would be that difficult. Just use some shaped charges and tension wire to make sure the lift falls inward, away from Flight Deck.

[The BeastFan]

If I'm not mistaken, the land also drops off away from Adventure Express (not sure about the area around Flight Deck) which may also be of help come the time of the likely demolision.

Also, since you didn't find them yourself, I will profide links to all the park threads we have (to post your updates).

Kings Island

Dorney Park

Kings Dominion

Carowinds

Cedar Point

California's Great America

Knott's Berry Farm

Worlds of Fun

Michigan's Adventure

[Bretten Bailey]

If I'm not mistaken, the land also drops off away from Adventure Express (not sure about the area around Flight Deck) which may also be of help come the time of the likely demolision.

Also, since you didn't find them yourself, I will profide links to all the park threads we have (to post your updates).

The land does. As you know, because you live near there, the park sits on hilly terrain. I believe "Son of Beast" sits on a rise area that leads almost into a basin near Adventure Express.

And who said I didn't? I know where all the different park threads are, but this thread is for Cedar Fair overall leading into the Ouimet era. While I did post some big rumors and changes, most of what has been posted is showcasing the smaller changes that are coming out under Ouimet (general park improvements chain wide, new fresh never frozen burgers in the park, Park Managers getting Twitters). I'll post the new updates under their respective parks too, but with all the general Six Flags topics out there, this one shouldn't be that big of a deal.

[The BeastFan]

There's something I've been meaning to ask about the Fast Lane.

Do all Cedar Fair parks do as Kings Island does with them, which is limit the number to the projected attendance each day? I read comments all the time on FB and it seems some parks do while others don't.

[Daniel Westfall]

They limit per day, but do nothing to limit how many are out at any particular hour of the day or how many can be used at a ride. Theoretically, they could sell out in their first hour and all those people could all stand in line for MF and the park couldn't, wouldn't and shouldn't do anything about it. Also, much of the griping comes from people that just don't understand the system. Yes, you can wait approximately the same time as the regular queue or longer, just your queue is shorter, but not FASTER (it is actually much slower).

[The BeastFan]

^I understand how people can misunderstand the system (I've timed the lines, there's no difference). I guess my real issue is if, say, 2 train loads of fast lane-ers show up for a single coaster. Do the operators send them all or do they limit how many fast lane-ers go per-cycle? I could see that very well being the case on certain rides at certain parks. That kind of mass fast lane turn out on a single ride could affect how lines are sorted through.

[steel-Rock]

^ I'm not sure on what basis they decide to limit their Fast Lane tickets, but Canada's Wonderland,
Cedar Point, Dorney Park, King's Dominion, and Knott's Berry Farm all have warnings on their
websites saying "limited quantities available / many days will sell out". I also checked on the sites
of California's Great America, Carowinds, Michigan's Adventure, Valleyfair, and Worlds of Fun.
They also have the same warnings, but I can't imagine needing this on most days at these smaller
parks. Now that I got the wristband for the first time, I can't believe people would go on a busy day
without it. (This was at Canada's Wonderland two weeks ago.) Unless you are 100 percent sure
that it will be a slow day, I would get one right away.

On the other hand, the Flash Pass at Six Flags seems like a rip off. You can't ride what you want
when you want, only what and where the device tells you. Magic Mountain charges you extra for
using it for X2 and double for riding it or anyhing else a second time! At Great America, there is
no Flash Pass for X Flight but they still want to charge you double for extra rides on others!

[The BeastFan]

Yeah, don't get me wrong, I'm all for the fast lane and what it brings to the table, its just after seeing and hearing about it now that it's had a full season to work out, I'm wondering about some potential problems. I'm sure Cedar Fair will further evaluate how they work and continue to improve the fast lane vs. non fast lane experience.

One thing I'm also curious on is if we'll see more of these new food items work their way to other parks like they've tried with Kings Island and Knott's. I've been pretty impressed so far with the new items at KI.

Finally, I'd like to ask when we'll start seeing Ouimet's influence on new attractions. I realize rides take years to go from the ideas to when they break ground, so I'm just wondering when we'll see less of Kinzel's influence and start to see Ouimet's.

[Daniel Westfall]

I think we'll see new and improved food choices popping up everywhere, but I don't see Ouimet going for the same restaurants everywhere. I think he is trying to get the pulse of what each area likes and is adding appropriate choices. I think they are going for some places everyone will recognize that are good for visitors (like Subway), but are also going for the things the locals love, like Pink's at CP, Skyline at KI, etc. I think we'll be seeing food have a "local touch" to it.