^So just because you didn't hear a single person say it, that means everyone doesn't want to ride it? When you're in an area like Knott's Berry Farm is, the family rides appeal to the families vacationing there (or the families looking to vacation there). So the thrill riders "get angry" and won't go until a thrill ride is built? So what, that's not a large enough percentage to outweigh the families that will come in.

Look at Michigan's Adventure. This park has the highest profit margin in the Cedar Fair chain and hasn't built a new thrill ride since 2008. This is kind of dubbed as a "local family park". Why haven't they built one? Because their present business plan is working. Why build a new thrill ride when you're already breaking attendance records? You wait for attendance to start slipping then BAAM.

So what's Knott's doing? Basing what they're doing off records. Their attendance did better when they introduced family attractions so they're doing it again. According to Knott's website, there are 9 thrill rides (counting all under thrill rides tab & then the rollercoasters that would be considered "non-family". Only 8 if you don't want to count Screamin' Swing). There are 11 family rides under the family rides tab. That's not a very large margin at all.

Once again, not a saying a thrill ride won't be back, but the "family" direction is what Matt Ouimet wanted, and overall it is being well received by many critics (just not the whiney Facebook fans). But look at how well the chain did this year under that plan? Now he announced they're going to renovate all the Cedar Point resort and improve infrastructure at the parks that need it (including Knotts). He's all about the families and you'll see how good that'll do the park & chain over the years.

Also, families spend more money at parks than thrill seekers. End of story.

A banner was put up outside Kiddy Kingdom today....this is what it reads

"We Can't Keep It Locked Away Much Longer
Join Us, Just Outside the Main Gate Where All We've Kept Hidden Will Be SET FREE at 3:30 PM, August 13th."

There is also a banner near Disaster Transport.

That non-inverted banked turn that everyone has been talking about will surely not be the most talked about element anymore haha. While that bank is amazing, the double barrel rolls will be too. The layout may be short (does it really matter that much?), but it's amazing and will definitely be a great ride. The lap bars also make it even better, the train can navigate the elements without us having to worry about headbanging.

Just announced today. Son of Beast will begin demolition later this summer.

While I would agree with you, there are a few things to point out.

In the chain, Michigan's Adventure is one of the most profitable parks and draws in entire families and not just the thrillseeking crowd.   They don't get new attractions that often because if the park is running smoothly, whats the point in adding a new thrill ride or something each year? If something isn't broke, don't try and fix it.

It has no problems like Geagua Lake did. If it did, it wouldn't be making money and would've been nowhere near salvageable. Cedar Fair bought it for $28 million and the park makes up a good portion of its income. I know of a lot of Platinum Pass holders who even purchase their passes from Michigan's Adventure and then use them there, at Cedar Point & Kings Island. The park was a good investment for the chain and they have a big interest in it even though the market isn't super huge. This is evidenced by the potential sales of parks a few years back, Michigan's Adventure wasn't even on the list,

"WindSeeker" would be a good addition though I'm not sure it would top out at the same height as the rest of them (301 feet here would tower above everything else). Fun Spot in Kissimmee is putting one in at a shorter height, I wonder if Cedar Fair would do the same thing.

As for Dinosaurs Alive, if it was a cheaper investment than the rest of them, the park would have no problem breaking even. Seeing as this is primarily a family park, families would spend that extra money to go through DA. I have not seen any problems with families spending a little extra at this park in any way, shape or form. You don't even need to rent tubes at the waterpark and there is a huge sign saying it isn't required yet lots of patrons do anyway.

The park even has Fast Lane. I didn't see anyone use it (that I'm aware of, with the exception of what could've been someone using it on Thunderhawk), but it wasn't too busy when I was there either. Once school gets out I'm sure it will be a bit more busier (I know what everyone is thinking, it will never get too busy), but i have a feeling that the park will see more attendance records broken this year....even getting closer to the 1 million mark.

Also the drive from Muskegon to Cedar Point is more in the ballpark of 4 1/2 hours. Still feasible, but if you just wanted to make a day trip of it (which most families in West Michigan do) they just drive the 1-2 hours up to the park.

Can't say I'm not surprised.  We knew it would be either this or Disaster Transport that would go first.  I'm guessing CP is low on the spare parts bin and it's probably one of the rides at a higher cost to maintain, especially with all the incidents its had recently.  I'll be very curious to see what goes in its place, if anything.

Also, given that they moved Demon Drop to Dorney, does anyone think Wildcat will find a new home or be sold for scrap metal?

Yeah, this was going to come eventually. The way it sounds, "WildCat" was on the docket to be removed either next season or the season after. Removing it will open up to more expansion of "Celebration Plaza" but it's obvious that it wasn't intended to be removed for that reason (as the stage would've been better of going there I feel). I believe either Gerstlauer or Zierer took over the spare parts department for the old Schwarzkopf rides and would've been on the team to help fix it...however, I think the Point just wanted to be done with it after its rich history. The ride was just testing two days ago so it's assumed that something happened during testing that they decided they didn't want to deal with and, as stated, "accelerated it's removal". If it was already planned to be removed, then why spend the money to fix it for one season?

As for being moved, no. It's been stated it will be recycled. Though I wish it could be moved, it is technically a portable ride afterall.

The time of the announcement is whats upsetting. The ride must be completely out in 10 days and no one really got a chance to ride it one last time (it honestly has been ages since I last rode it and I'm upset I skipped it now). Obviously something happened to bring about such a quick announcement...but I'm kind of scared that new management won't announce what's being removed in the future. We had a whim on this and the ones at the other parks ("The Crypt" at Kings Island & "Falling Star" at Michigan's Adventure), and we know that Ouimet wants to get rid of rides that have maintenance problems but an announcement during the operating season would be nice. Obviously that may not have been possible with "WildCat" though as it is presumed that something did happen during testing. Also, CP has sent a lot of stuff out already for 2012 claiming "17 coasters" so this was a last second decision. A lot of park maps have become dated now.

On to other news. Matt Ouimet stated that 2013 would see $25 million in Capital Expenditures and that he wants the beach to be enjoyed more. He also mentioned possibly opening up the view of the beach (sometimes jokingly and sometimes seriously). A revert to "Avalanche Run" anyone??

The Gemini stock needs some more padding like their conterparts at KI for Adventure Express.  They'd be even more comfortable than what they already give to CCMR.   I can see improved loading and unloading as the CCMR stock required a foot release for the restraints whilst the Gemini stock doesn't.  I also hope they make the Gemini stock look like they belong on CCMR.

BTW, the news on the trains came from Screamscape with a photo of the Gemini trains on the CCMR track.

I wonder if Vekoma offers to add their stock to Arrow mine trains, or if S&S has the ability to remake old but improved Arrow trains for the various types.

While it isn't confirmed yet, I do see this happening. Several people who went on "off-season tours" have stated that they saw two "Gemini" trains sitting on "Cedar Creek Mine Ride". Moving these unused trains over would really benefit the park and guests riding the ride for numerous reasons.
  -More comfortable Seats
  -Individual Lapbars
  -Quicker Dispatch Times
In addition, the trains would also give a different ride experience (and probably a little bit faster of a ride). The question is asked "With the quicker loading and unloading times that could result from this, would it be possible for the ride to resume three-train operation?". Well, that's a hard one to answer. For the past few years, the ride has been running on two train operations, but did originally run with three. If the ride is more comfortable and dispatches quicker, maybe ridership will increase. However, "Gemini" only has two backup trains. If the need was for three trains, the original Mine Ride trains wouldn't look right with two "Gemini" trains. So I'd say no. The only other option (besides having S&S build new trains) is to get a backup train from "Excalibur".

As for getting them to look like they belong on "Cedar Creek Mine Ride", I'm sure that will happen. They'll get a rustic makeover as well as a few changes. The park has great facilities in house to make these changes. Trains may not seem like that big of a change, but it will somewhat seem like the ride is re-born to me.

Also, I believe that S&S does have the ability to recreate updated Arrow trains. They have the rights to all their stuff now and I believe, if asked, they wouldn't have a problem doing it.
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Switching gears, I figured we should talk a little bit more about the future.

-For those wondering how "Dinosaurs Alive!" construction is coming along, here's a video from ABC Action News out of Toledo http://www.13abc.com...&autostart=true. Truthfully, I think this attraction will actually be a big hit and will draw some great revenue to the park. I hope some people are looking forward to experiencing it on Adventure Island.

-While the New Entertainment hasn't been released yet, you should expect to see some GREAT shows as usual at the Point this summer. The one that everyone is now looking forward to is the new "Luminosity: Ignite the Night" show. This show will feature fireworks, music, lasers & lights. It is easily re-programmable and could be compared to the "World of Color" at EPCOT (but on a smaller scale). In addition, extended park hours....oh yeah. Best is, if its a good fit here, it will be rolled out to all of the other Cedar Fair parks for next year (just like "Fast Lane"

-Speaking of "Fast Lane"...Cedar Fair now holds the Trademarks for "Fast Lane" & "Fright Lane". I think this will be another good way for Cedar Point and the rest of the parks to make money this year. The system is being designed to NOT interfere with a regular customers day.

-Do we even need to talk about the better food quality this year?

-The New Website will really help guests plan their days as well as offer cheaper ticket prices. The new season pass installment plans are also great.

-Soak City's NEW Mat Racer slide that replaced the Speed Slides is an Octopus Model from ProSlide.
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2013 Coaster??

-Lets look at the name "StratoSoar". Everyone got really excited when this name was trademarked and really thought it would be the name of the next ride or a ride in the future. While going through the Cedar Fair Trademark Database the other day, I actually found that the trademark for "StratoSoar" is no longer active and has expired. This was originally supposed to be the name for the Star Flyer that was supposed to be built at the park instead of "WindSeeker". So don't count on the name of the rumored 2013 coaster to be "StratoSoar".

-Who still thinks it's going to be a B&M if one is built? Add me to the list. Cedar Fair has been working a great deal with B&M lately and I think we may see one come to the Point next summer. Sure Cedar Point has so many great and thrilling coasters, but only two of them come from B&M. We haven't seen one since "Mantis" opened in 1996. Walter Bolliger also gave a speech at CoasterMania a few years ago....perhaps a precursor?

-What type of coaster will it be?

-Well, we can automatically count out an Inverted & Stand-Up Coaster as the park already has these models from B&M.

-We can count out a Hyper/Mega (Their over 300 foot coasters such as "Leviathan" included) as well seeing as the park already has a Hyper, Giga & Strata Coaster. One of these would seem redundant. I'm not saying that this coaster might not break 200 feet, but I doubt it will be one of these models if it does.
-A Flyer can pretty much be counted out as well. The coaster that may be coming next year was planned under Kinzel. He wasn't a big fan of Flyers (this is evident by the fact that the only two flyers in the chain were acquired under acquisitions). He even stated that one wouldn't be built at the Point. Now, seeing as he is no longer CEO, I am not saying that one will never be built here, it just probably won't at this time.
-The park needs a good sitdown looper. So this leaves us with two models for this section...a B&M Sitdown, or a Floorless. I can see a Floorless being more of a possibility over a regular Sitdown looper, but I see both of them being a "small chance" right now.
-Dive Machine? I think this is actually a possibility. At CoasterMania a few years back it was stated that a "Dive Machine was not out of the question" meaning that they possibly could've been considering one at the time. Now, of course, that consideration could've gone out the window, but for all intensive purposes, lets say it wasn't. There are alot of arguments that could made about this.
   -Yes, it's another coaster breaking 200 feet. It'd be number 5. Something tells me that the next coaster will probably break 200 anyway. Sure its redundant and it still gives the marketing department some bragging rights. A lot of people say that the "Coaster Wars" are over, and in a way, they are. But the marketing you can still get out of saying "The Only Park in the World with 5 Coasters over 200 feet" is still a big kick.
   -It would be a vertical drop coaster. The park already has a coaster with an 80 degree drop, a 90 degree drop & a 95 degree drop....why add another 90?. Well, the experience on a dive machine (especially with the holding brake) is a lot different than all three of those. It truly would be a great rush. This could even lead to more bragging..."The only park in the world with 4 coasters with drops exceeding 80 degrees" hehe.
   -If a Dive Machine was built, what would it be like? Well, people may, once again say the Wars are over with, but if the Point was to build a Dive Machine, I'm sure it would top out as the Tallest & Fastest in the world (with probably the most inversions. The tallest one in the world right now is 213 feet tall. You just need three inversions. Sure it may seem a bit farfetched, but is it really that far from reality?
   -Last but not least, a Wing Rider-Wing Riders are certainly a big craze nowadays. Will Cedar Point join the wave and get a Wing Rider? If so, will this one be the tallest & fastest? Would just need to top 210. In addition, having 6 inversions would beat that record as well.
   -Alot of people have been saying "Well what about a new concept from B&M?". I do think B&M has some new concepts on the table, but I don't think any of them will be built for 2013. Don't hold that to me as I would LOVE to see a B&M 4D coaster or something of the sort, but that is still probably a few years off.

The last question to ask is "Where is the new supposed coaster going to go?" I think everyone should turn their eyes away from the Cars area near "Blue Streak" & "Raptor" and turn them over towards "Disaster Transport". Construction on this ride will actually be beginning sooner than we think if it is to begin. If that were the case, "Calypso" & the two car rides would already be closed to be moved or cleared. Turning towards the other side of the Entrance Path, we have a lot of space near "Disaster Transport" and the games. If a ride is built in this area and "Disaster Transport" isn't touched, I am sure that it will be around for many years to come. I have attached some images below showing where I think this supposed coaster could go.

1st Attachment-An aerial of the entire front area of the park. In RED, I have a predicted site. The indigo box is a possible extension of that predicted site. For those thinking that is too small, I kept it zoomed out so "Raptor" could stay in view so you can see the comparison.

2nd Attachment-A close-up of my predicted site.

I normally don't do posts after another one when someone hasn't replied, but I think this deserves its own new post.

For those who haven't heard about the "FUNforward" presentation yesterday, then here is what will be going on with Cedar Fair in the immediate future.

-In a half a season, Fast Lane generated nearly $1 million at Kings Island. Matt Ouimet stated that it is meant to be implemented to not disrupt anyone who does not have a Fast Lane pass (so we may be seeing something similar to Six Flag's Flash Pass). Fast Lane will be implemented at all 11 Amusement Parks next year (yes, this includes Michigan's Adventure)

-Fast Lane will be available at Halloween Attractions during any Haunts, HalloWeekends and Scarowinds. It will be redubbed "Fright Lane".

-Ticket Prices have gone up at most parks and the rest may follow. However, if bought online, they will be cheaper than if bought at the park. Ticket Prices for Cedar Point have gone up $2. However, they are $7 cheaper if bought online.

-The new websites will all be live before season starts. It is expected that these new sites will drive people to the parks generating a good cash flow. Ticket buying will also be easier.

-There will be a good "Family:Teen" ratio. Thrill Rides will still be built, but so will family rides. The belief is that if there is a good ratio mix, then profits will be maximized.

-"Luminosity-Ignite the Night!" will debut at Cedar Point this year. It is a HUGE upgrade to last years night time show. It will feature fireworks, pyro and lasers.

-There will be quality enhancements in the food sector of the parks. The food will be worth the money. The hamburger stands will feature fresh, never frozen burgers.

-There will be big enhancements in the Resorts as well.

-There will be "Premium Experiences" for guests who want to pay for it...this includes Dining and Parking.

-Season Pass processes and such will be upgraded soon. This includes a possible "month-by-month" payment instead of a one time payment for it. There will also be easier renewal options and better discount redemptions.

-More characters will be featured at the parks. Expect to see more costumed characters. In addition, Woodstock & Franklin will join the character ensemble.

-Matt wants to make sure that everyone knows that what he is doing with the chain is "inspired by Disney" but "Is NOT Disney".

-It was stated that "Dinosaurs Alive!" & "WindSeeker" has done wonders for the chain. There was also brief talk about "Leviathan" which is their pride attraction for next year.

-For 2012, $90 million will go in to new attractions and capital improvements for each of the properties.

-There is a stated set Five-Year Capital Plan. This includes about 9% of earnings each year. 9% will also go towards maintenance.

-It was mentioned that there would be a lot more experiences and improvements (and rides) added to the parks over the next few seasons.

-California's Great America was mentioned as there being "plans".

-There is a new "Thrills Connect" Advertising Campaign for the parks New in 2012. This includes numerous slogans proving that there is a mix of family & thrills at each of the parks. These slogans include "Sometimes finding common ground happens ten stories above it", "They may not hug you anymore, but they'll squeeze your hand for dear life" & "At 120mph, kids can't roll their eyes at you".

-Looking into rides and expansions in the future. Mr. Ouimet stated they will be making use of "undeveloped land" for expansion. Also, he plans for the chain to remain innovative with new rides and attractions with research while asking the companies to offer lower prices. He also stated that parks will serve as "test beds" and if something does good, it'll be expanded. Fast Lane is a perfect example of this (as is Dinosaurs Alive!). Maybe Luminosity will end up at other parks next year as well.

That just about sums it all up. I think we are looking at some great years ahead.

^The one with the animated rides? I loved that as well.

There are a lot of inconsistencies among the sites, with Kings Dominion being the most odd-ball of them all. Of course they just switched everything over and are probably trying to see which one works the best before all of them are like that. There are a lot of glitches to work out as well I'm sure.

Carowinds, Worlds of Fun, Dorney Park, California's Great America, Valleyfair, Michigan's Adventure, The Knott's Soak City's and Wildwater Kingdom will soon follow with site updates (all will basically be what the new sites are)

^Exactly what I was thinking!

When wood is replaced on the rides (For rails or in the middle of the track-on Mean Streak and Blue Streak-) is that GCI doing that? Or is that CP replacing wood?

When they say a B&M flyer is not out of the question, who was the on who told us that you would not get wet on the 2010 attraction?

I rest my case.

CP could easily just be saying that to veer us off in the wrong direction. I could be wrong, most likely, but still. You get my point.

When the wood like that is being replaced, its Cedar Point replacing the wood. If GCI were to re-track "Mean Streak" it'd be a lot more extensive and it wouldn't be "just replacing aged wood". A practically new product would come out of it (and this is assuming that "Mean Streak" can be helped. They are looking into it. I don't think "Blue Streak" needs to be worked on by GCI, it's fine the way it is.

Haha, case NOT rested. I believe it was Tony that told us that we would not get wet on the 2010 attraction during Coastermania (and this was to mess with us as most people already knew or "assumed" it was a water ride anyway). This was Dick Kinzel (Cedar Fair CEO) who said there would never be a flyer at the Point. He has stated this multiple times, and states it whenever asked at several Coastermania's (starting in 2005 I believe).

I think we could see a Cedar Point/Great Coasters International deal. Working on "Mean Streak" and a new coaster. Cedar Fair has been working with GCI on several products lately and I'm sure some more of the parks will receive GCI coasters in the near future.

Ok...I'm going to put out whats known-

There were 3 coaster proposals before "Maverick" was chosen.
NONE of those coasters were Intamin Pre-Fabs. Kinzel also stated that an Intamin Pre-Fab would NOT be considered.

Cedar Fair is quite pleased with working with GCI. "Renegade" will be used as a sort of "measuring stick" for future GCI installations at Cedar Fair parks (Cedar Point anyone?).

Direct Quote-

There will definitely NOT be any B&M flyer at Cedar Point, ever.

However, a Dive Machine was said to NOT be out of the question. So, if this dive machine was a floorless dive machine, I doubt that a B&M Floorless model will sprout up at the Point.

One of the workers in charge of the parks development has been pushing for a dark ride for years. (Now with Disaster Transports effects back on, hopefully they can keep that going and even add some more into it again and then build another dark ride).

(Let me mind you, this was from CoasterMania 2007)-Kinzel stated that if he was given the choice, he'd spend more money on extra track than theming. (Lets see how "Shoot the Rapids" turns out for theming. This was also pre-"Starlight Experience" which is pure theming itself....and it cost $1 million.). I hope for more theming in the future....

Oh, and the rumors about Mean Streak are true. GCI is looking into ways of fixing it. We'll have to wait and see what comes of that...

Demon Drop is still for sale. It will remain where it is at until it is sold.